Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla • Hacker News Board

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#161

Post by moate » Sat, Aug 31, 2024, 7:51 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #143

A large group of people will look at these stories of technology being used to get the worst people off the street and say "This is creepy stuff," and a lot of that same group will listen to politicians telling them "the solution to gun violence is for everyone to have guns" and nod thoughtfully in agreement.

Sure? But some people also don’t care about either and others people think too much focus is on preventing effects (crime) and not on addressing cause (material conditions) and plenty of pro-fascists quote 1984 to support policy that would have made Orwell want to shoot them in the head.

People be crazy.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#162

Post by pjc50 » Sat, Aug 31, 2024, 7:52 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #66

darth_avocado wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While it'd be nice if police could investigate every type of crime That’s literally their job, which they get paid for. But anyway, my comment was more referring to the fact that if they had done their job, I’d be more open to keeping my Sentry mode on.

> > While it'd be nice if police could investigate every type of crime > That’s literally their job, which they get paid for. It's literally not. Their job is to do a variety of things, including investigation, according to the priorities of the higher, within the financial constraints they are given and according to the priorities of the authority placed over them (which in many cases is the top leadership of the po…

What this conversation is getting at is the police being (percieved to be) selective about what they do and don't care about is gradually corrosive to co-operation.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#163

Post by thunder-blue-3 » Sat, Aug 31, 2024, 7:53 PM UTC

Will they though? Crime enforcement in the bay area is a joke - from alameda county into SF. I'm so happy to have moved out and into a state with actual community engagement and accountability.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#164

Post by hermannj314 » Sat, Aug 31, 2024, 7:53 PM UTC

morkalork wrote: post #124

lalaithion wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment you’re responding to is postulating enforcement via higher insurance costs. If insurance gets ~20 reports of someone running a red light, maybe they’ll double the cost to insure that person.

But that's the catch, using ML to scan a plate doesn't confirm who was driving.

For insurance underwriting, would it need to? "People whose household receive X anonymous tips" is a cohort that either does or does not have more insurable risk, and if it does correlate then you can make an attempt to adjust premiums accordingly.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#165

Post by reillys » Sat, Aug 31, 2024, 7:54 PM UTC

If I or somebody else was the victim of a crime I would 100% support using every available source of information to solve that crime. I think we need adequate controls sure, but mostly we need to increase trust in government and police forces so we know we can trust the relevant people with our data.

There is epic fear in the US about the government. That is the actual problem. Now the US gov is a shady piece of shit, so a lot of that is well founded, but that is the root of the problem. Solve that problem and actually trust the people who are supposed to be responsible and in charge to do the right thing and this data problem stops becoming as much of an issue. And no, building some kind of philosophical zero trust system is not going to solve anything, it is a prison you'll end up living in.

Encourage transparency in Police forces and Government with strong legislation and strong support for whistleblowers and punishment of infractions and you have yourself a system that people can begin to trust.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#166

Post by mullingitover » Sat, Aug 31, 2024, 7:55 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #146

mullingitover wrote: post #143

A large group of people will look at these stories of technology being used to get the worst people off the street and say "This is creepy stuff," and a lot of that same group will listen to politicians telling them "the solution to gun violence is for everyone to have guns" and nod thoughtfully in agreement.

Guns can't be used for surveillance.

A person who believes they'll be caught and face consequences for committing crimes is strongly affected by knowing there is heavy surveillance of their criminal activities. They're less likely to be deterred just knowing that a lot of other people will randomly have guns, in fact that makes them more likely to also have a gun and to shoot first (e.g.: that actor who was gunned down confronting someone who was stealing a catalytic converter).

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#167

Post by loteck » Sat, Aug 31, 2024, 7:56 PM UTC

thunder-blue-3 wrote: post #163

Will they though? Crime enforcement in the bay area is a joke - from alameda county into SF. I'm so happy to have moved out and into a state with actual community engagement and accountability.

Where'd you move to?

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#168

Post by paradox460 » Sat, Aug 31, 2024, 7:56 PM UTC

rbalicki wrote: post #6

Genuine question: What is stopping some small percent of drivers from installing cameras and using ML to identify cars driving dangerously (e.g. speeding, running reds, changing multiple lanes at once, etc.), and when their license plate is identifiable, finding and informing their insurance company? If even a small subset of users did this, and insurers did something with this information, it would substantially dis…

Back when I used to cross the San Mateo bridge frequently, I'd see the same group of drivers routinely driving dangerously and breaking multiple laws. I had dashcam footage. I once called up CHP and asked if they wanted it. They politely told me where to shove it

The police don't want to enforce the laws that are written. They don't even pull over drivers without license plates.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#169

Post by nox101 » Sat, Aug 31, 2024, 7:57 PM UTC

monkeywork wrote: post #147

nox101 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reporting is not the same as policing. Telling the police about a crime is the norm. Then the police police based on the report.

when you start offering monetary rewards for non-serious crime reporting you end up where the number of reports will outrun the resources of the reviewers and eventually have someone be required to "protest" the report and claim they are innocent putting a burden on them rather than the burden being on the authorities to prove you've done something wrong first. Look at things like DMCA reporting on youtube and how it…

What's this non serious crime you speak of? It certainly not theft and traffic violations. theft ruins people's lives. traffic violations get people killed. Since 2010, the number of people dying in car accidents has gone up 50% per capita

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#170

Post by monkeywork » Sat, Aug 31, 2024, 7:58 PM UTC

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #87

pbohun wrote: post #36

We've seen this type of thing happen with Ring, where the police want video from people's private cameras. Do police have the legal right to access/take people's private property like this? I thought the 4th amendment of the constitution protected against unreasonable searches and seizures?

If it’s my outdoor cameras and it pertains to a crime that happened just outside my home, they can have the footage. A very practical contribution I can make to my neighborhoods safety

So if the camera is in your car you are ok with them towing it away to pull the footage if they can't get in touch with you right away leaving you without a car?

What if while looking at your footage for a crime outside your home (not related to you or your property) they see you doing something that could constitute a charge should they be able to share you for it as well?

If someone saw you out in front of your house on your phone during the time of the crime should the authorities be able to seize your phone under the assumption that you were likely recording the incident?