GvR's first comment, mentioning (but not naming) the banned person, is now visible to me, at least.
A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines
161–170 of 289 posts
Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
I also don’t fully understand why some folks are worked up. We all have posts that are downvoted and removed even here on HN. If you don’t like the steering committee or whatever, just elect a new one.
Do you understand but just don't agree? Can we help in increasing understanding on why people have certain opinions in this topic? Or do you kinda know why and are expressing a kind of disagreement and disapproval of holding the opinions?
Yes, please help me understand why this is a big deal!
A committee that was chosen by a community decided to remove a post. It looks like the removal was well within their authority. If the community disagrees with the committee, they can move discussion to another venue, elect a new committee, and so on, no?
None of this adversely affects the performance or reliability of software written in python.
Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm an outsider who only knows Guido van Rossum by way of interviews his writing. Assuming your quote is what the original text said (I don't disbelieve you-- but nobody can see it to confirm) why would this have violated community standards? Is there some rule about not mentioning "un-persons" or something? It's very confusing. Edit: Answering my own question. There appears to be a kerfuffle afoot. Apparently the St…
Wow, just wow. Reading all these makes me really worried about supporting anything built on Python long term. This creates an impression of a self-destructing dying community.
Also see for the last python release notes for some hardcore politics injected right into your tooling language. Python is unfortunately radioactive and can't be used responsibly anymore. They're halfway to selfdestruction
Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines
#164These are not "Python community guidelines". These are the guidelines of a tyrannical clique who have grabbed power and control the access to the infrastructure. They abuse their power by banning any opposition and then using said infrastructure to libel and defame their opponents. Google already fired one or two of them. I do not know what is required to restore the health of Python.
It's funny how drama, toxicity and speech suppresion ensues as soon as you establish a CoC and let a bunch of SJWs enforce it. Every. Single. Time.
Similarly (un)funny how the technology behind blockchains, formal verification, and decentralization is ridiculed on the basis of inefficiency etc., Every. Single. Time. given such a governance structure would be so much harder for the legalese power trippers to regulatory capture...
Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow, just wow. Reading all these makes me really worried about supporting anything built on Python long term. This creates an impression of a self-destructing dying community.
This is silly. The Python Foundation could die tonight and people will still build in Python for years to come because believe it or not, most people do not know or care about the happenings of these organizations.
Yeah, but my experience with Perl shows, once something like this happens, its pretty much downhill from there.
Not saying Python is going away tomorrow, in fact it might remain actively developed and used for decades to come. But with proactive thought, improvement and initiative gone. Competition will replace you in time. That's just how it works.
Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow, just wow. Reading all these makes me really worried about supporting anything built on Python long term. This creates an impression of a self-destructing dying community.
Also see for the last python release notes for some hardcore politics injected right into your tooling language. Python is unfortunately radioactive and can't be used responsibly anymore. They're halfway to selfdestruction
What specifically are you talking about? I couldn’t find anything political in the Python 3.12 release notes.
Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you understand but just don't agree? Can we help in increasing understanding on why people have certain opinions in this topic? Or do you kinda know why and are expressing a kind of disagreement and disapproval of holding the opinions?
Yes, please help me understand why this is a big deal! A committee that was chosen by a community decided to remove a post. It looks like the removal was well within their authority. If the community disagrees with the committee, they can move discussion to another venue, elect a new committee, and so on, no? None of this adversely affects the performance or reliability of software written in python.
This doesn't directly affect the software as it currently stands.
It's mainly about the organisation. The people in charge have some a sequence of things that have increasingly alarmed people who care about the organisation of the project. More people are getting interested in what has happened with each step. This is one of the latest actions where even the key person who started Python has been impacted. This shows that the actions they were doing are important and worthy of attention as anyone who interacts within the organisation is within the reach of potential impact. No-one is untouchable. Outside though to the rest of us it's not directly impactful currently.
So then there is the impacts on wider things like software. As you say the community can just vote out the ones they dislike and vote in a new bunch. To me and many others, this sounds it should solve the situation. However I think some others see the problems as systemic, where the actions taken are a result of how the management organisation is structured and so the problems will occur again even if new people were in charge. If that's the case then more of a change might be demanded which could affect the software. (But in what ways is unclear)
On a HN scale, there's a wider sociological and cultural issue of how large open source software projects should be organised. And this is an example showing the problems of certain approaches especially as certain things were directly for reducing abuse and yet seem to be used in an abusive way. For many here on HN who are in various communities with similar structures, seeing what happens here is very important to them. There is a varying amount of personal investment in this story about the users own lives more than Python itself.
Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines
#168You can vote your way into a CoC but you need to fork your way out.
When Codes of Conduct were first introduced, they sounded like a benign concept. But now it's becoming increasing clear that they're the Trojan horse that allows the inmates to take over the asylum.
Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
When Guido stopped being the sole leader (BDFL) he was replaced by the steering council which is elected and has the purpose of doing the following (Defined in PEP 13 which is the current governance model of Python. Right now Guido is a core developer at this time. See https://peps.python.org/pep-0013/#the-steering-council
That's pretty obvious. The question was, who are these people, specifically, and why they were chosen and given that much power. I mean, I can see the names, but while I don't have to be told who Tim Peters or Guido van Rossum are, I have no clue who these guys are and what their actual contributions are.
I don't have a factual answer for you (be interested in one, too), only a cheek-in-tongue one:
It's like politics, the only thing you have to do to get elected is to get people to vote for you. And often the vote is only among people who _want_ to be elected (and in a position of power), massively reducing the pool of good candidates.
Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
> gung-ho on censorship? What the actual f** is this? Unintenti**l irony
I hope that's just a rib. Else, one should be able to tell self control over stamping authority over others. Very few people openly speak their inner monologue, uncensored just releasing their stream of consciousness like a delirious hobo down a stench filled alleyway.
You did have any opportunity to rewrite your sentence to use any other word than f**, one that did not require self-censoring. Yet you did not. Why?