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Starting today, YouTube is almost unusable on Firefox

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Re: Starting today, YouTube is almost unusable on Firefox

#161

Post by VancouverMan »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #106
VancouverMan wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Promoting Chrome may have gotten more people to install it and give it a try, but it didn't force those people to continue using Chrome. It didn't force them to keep using Chrome for years and years, in many cases. Most people, including a great many former Firefox users, simply chose to keep on using Chrome because it offered (and still offers) a superior web browsing experience compared to its competitors. This isn…

> Promoting Chrome may have gotten more people to install it and give it a try, but it didn't force those people to continue using Chrome. It didn't force them to keep using Chrome for years and years, in many cases. Isnt a huge reason Google just lost its anti trust case exactly this? Google search is the default on iphones and studies, and the court, found that that was enough to make a huge majority of users stay…

We're discussing Chrome here, not Google's search offerings.

Aside from Google-produced products like Android and ChromeOS, I can't remember ever using a computer or device where Chrome was installed by default.

Even for the Android devices I've used, the earlier ones didn't come with Chrome. Recent Samsung phones I've used have also included Samsung's browser as an alternative.

It's conceivable that some Windows desktop or laptop vendors might have opted to install Chrome by default, but I've never seen that with any of the systems I've used. Even then, presumably IE and/or Edge would've still been installed, too.

Having dealt with a lot of Linux systems over the years, Firefox is actually the most pre-installed browser I've encountered.

I've almost always had to go out of my way to install Chrome any time I've wanted to use it.

Any sort of notice, recommendation, banner, or other ad I've seen on Google properties while using a non-Chrome browser has never resulted in Chrome automatically being installed on my systems.

I know my experience isn't unique.

People go out of their way to download and install Chrome. They go out of their way to continue using it, too.

A lot of people simply want to use Chrome, even if doing so requires some effort on their part.

Re: Starting today, YouTube is almost unusable on Firefox

#162

Post by pyrale »

gertop wrote: post #154
jarsin wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to think Chrome was such a savior from the IE hell we all were in back in the day. It's almost like all the MS execs ended up at (do no) Evil Corp.

Your version of history is bizarre. Firefox was the one that stole the market from IE. Chrome saved us from a (at the time) very sluggish Firefox.

Firefox was never #1. It had a very slow adoption curve driven by organic growth, and just when it started being a significant competitor, at about 25-30% of market share, Chrome got released and advertised to death (and also bundled in so many unrelated stuff like a malware), and its adoption skyrocketed.

Still, when Chrome released, IE was at about 65% market share.

Re: Starting today, YouTube is almost unusable on Firefox

#163

Post by VancouverMan »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #152
miroljub wrote: post #16

Can confirm. Google is a new Microsoft, they leverage their position to cross promote their shit browser and their shit data stealing services. Sorry guys, if your data collection website doesn't work well with Firefox and uBlock Origin, I just won't use it.

You really think Google is trying to steal the 5% market share that Firefox has held on to? I doubt they think about Firefox much at all.

I think putting Firefox's share of the market at 5% is being quite generous.

All of the metrics I've seen lately for a variety of web sites indicate that Firefox has less than 3% of the overall market.

The mobile situation is particularly bleak, where I've yet to see it even get close to breaking 1%.

At this point, Firefox's share of the market is closer to that of Mosaic, Navigator, and IE than it is to Chrome, Safari, and Edge.

Re: Starting today, YouTube is almost unusable on Firefox

#164

Post by mrandish »

inhumantsar wrote: post #157
mrandish wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just checked and YT is normal for me in FF 129.0.2 (64-bit). YT specific add-ons: uBlock Origin, Nova YouTube (userscript with dozens of modules to fix various YT behaviors and UI annoyances), and Enhancer for YouTube (adds more playback speeds, fixes default player size & volume levels). Since YT in my FF is heavily modified to be not awful, maybe the regression is in something my add-on stack is blocking.

> Nova YouTube looked this up out of curiosity. the only thing resembling a description is "Combine small plugins, expanding the possibilities of YouTube." which is pretty useless. what all does this do?

Here is what the Nova YT interface looks like on my Firefox. Each section is a separate module. Modules don't do anything if not activated so you can choose how you want YT to behave/appear.

https://i.imgur.com/lMKaJ5t.jpeg

After putting the number of videos in a grid row back to a useful number, things I especially like are changing video thumbnails back to a still that's actually from the fucking video, instead of a misleading click-bait image. I also like the option of changing all caps and removing emojis from video titles. It also has options to automatically remove a bunch of the stupid shit YT pushes in the UI I don't want to see.

After I got it set up, I found it literally shocking how much better YT is - yet in many ways, it's just restoring YT to the way it used to appear and work when its focus was user-centric instead of user manipulative. Since about ~2016 we've all been slowly frog-boiled by YT making the site slightly more annoying every month through iterative A/B testing optimizing for ad revenue. I literally can't go back to using stock YT now.

Each module has an info link which points to its entry in the wiki: https://github.com/raingart/Nova-YouTube-extension/wiki/plug.... Since I'm not familiar with YT's terminology for labeling all their UI elements, it initially took a little experimentation to see what some of the module options do but it's quick to change a setting, tab back to YT, refresh and see the result.

Re: Starting today, YouTube is almost unusable on Firefox

#165

Post by mozempthrowaway »

PaulHoule wrote: post #113
neilv wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since YouTube has massive resources and famed tooling&processes, presumably either they knew about the Firefox problems before deploying, or (if there was a genuine QA mistake) they'd know about it very soon after deploy, when they'd be able to rollback if they wanted to. (Obviously, they know about Firefox, they've developed for it since it was available, and they've even been funding it.)

Google funding Firefox is part of the problem. It contributes to the perception of corruption around the Mozilla organization, just as it does when the bus has a supergraphic ad for a car dealership on it. If the EU was serious about privacy they'd fully fund Firefox.

The perception of corruption is not without merit. Mozilla is pretty corrupt at this point. (Source: I work here).

I really don’t get where this whole “the EU should fund it” idea came from and why it’s repeated so often. Why would the EU throw their tax payer money at another corrupt American corporation? Mozilla has been in bed with Google for several years, has horrible web compatibility, and is only barely still in the privacy lane.

Besides, Europe isn’t the land of open source software and privacy. Look at the laws in the UK, France, and Germany; they’re not exactly privacy friendly. Look at the tech stacks at companies in the UK and Germany, they lean very heavily into the Microsoft/.NET world.

Re: Starting today, YouTube is almost unusable on Firefox

#166

Post by scohesc »

markus_zhang wrote: post #45

On a side note, I have been reflecting on the impact of modern Internet contents on me for the last 12 years or so. The conclusion is, for whatever the reason, the impact is mostly negative. It would do me a great favor to simply remove Youtube, social media sites and anything similar from my life. I probably have ADHD. I rarely completed any side projects. I'm anxious most if the time, biting my fingers all the time…

If it helps you at all - you're definitely not alone with this, I'm going through the same "existential crisis" of sorts in my 30s.

The internet and the variety of content and dopamine sources are horrible for some people who have ADHD, myself included. So much time wasted last decade going down the rabbithole on Youtube, Wikipedia, video games, etc. with deep regrets of missing out on more important things in life like networking, socializing, trying new things, etc. Not sure if you feel that way as well.

Even with long-term medication (Vyvanse)- which I have my own personal reservations about if they really "work" or not - I still struggle with this daily.

If you're looking/asking for advice - for me, I've found that taking drastic, meaningful actions help. "ripping the bandaid off", if you're familiar with that phrase.

I've unplugged my gaming PC, threw the power cord in the trash, and challenged myself to go as long as I could without it. I purchased a lower-end laptop and dock to plug into to still have dual monitors. It's not powerful enough to play the games I want to play which was the point, but I could still run VS Code to work with Python, Javascript, spin up webservers to play around, etc.

I ended up lasting a couple of weeks before purchasing a new power cord - but I did learn to remember that I do like programming/scripting.

The lack of self-control/willpower sucks. It would be nice if there were ADHD life coaches that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Re: Starting today, YouTube is almost unusable on Firefox

#167

Post by jarsin »

pyrale wrote: post #162
gertop wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your version of history is bizarre. Firefox was the one that stole the market from IE. Chrome saved us from a (at the time) very sluggish Firefox.

Firefox was never #1. It had a very slow adoption curve driven by organic growth, and just when it started being a significant competitor, at about 25-30% of market share, Chrome got released and advertised to death (and also bundled in so many unrelated stuff like a malware), and its adoption skyrocketed. Still, when Chrome released, IE was at about 65% market share.

Yup, it felt like overnight we could use the excuse "just use Chrome" to avoid those nasty IE workarounds.

Re: Starting today, YouTube is almost unusable on Firefox

#168

Post by darby_nine »

pessimizer wrote: post #114
saynay wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would remove any incentive to intentionally worsen the non-Chrome(ium) experience. Relevant if you suspect they are deliberately sabotaging Firefox. (That would be a foolish move to make while they are in the middle of multiple antitrust cases and already lost one, but companies aren't immune to acting like idiots)

Depends on how the ownership works. If the same individuals own both google and an independent Chrome, it won't remove anything. If it's legal for google to pay firefox a half-billion a year to be the default search engine for a 5% marketshare, why wouldn't it be legal for google to pay an independent Chrome 9.5B for the same right?

The ruling I referred to above was in fact that it is not legal to purchase the default search engine as this is de-facto anti-competitive behavior for a clear monopoly (which is, itself, not illegal—sometimes products dominate markets because they're genuinely better). Interestingly this means that what they've paid out (something on the order of a hundred billion, I think, all things told) is likely the floor for whatever is necessary to remediate the anti-competitive behavior.

There's also a possibility the DOJ will fumble this and make them offer alternative engines in a more aggressive manner and fine them, which will change nothing. I think the judge indicated such, so hopefully they take this opportunity seriously.

Re: Starting today, YouTube is almost unusable on Firefox

#169

Post by PaulHoule »

mozempthrowaway wrote: post #165
PaulHoule wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google funding Firefox is part of the problem. It contributes to the perception of corruption around the Mozilla organization, just as it does when the bus has a supergraphic ad for a car dealership on it. If the EU was serious about privacy they'd fully fund Firefox.

The perception of corruption is not without merit. Mozilla is pretty corrupt at this point. (Source: I work here). I really don’t get where this whole “the EU should fund it” idea came from and why it’s repeated so often. Why would the EU throw their tax payer money at another corrupt American corporation? Mozilla has been in bed with Google for several years, has horrible web compatibility, and is only barely still…

Then they should fork it and start a new organization.

The EU and the world could have a privacy focused browser if they paid for it. If they don't they're going to always be waiting for the market to do it and it won't. Given that Mozilla wastes a lot of resources on things that are thoroughly pizzled (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autofac) a browser could be maintained for much less than the current Mozilla budget. This is why "fully funded" as opposed to "funded" is key. So long as the organization feels the need to go around with its hat out it is going to be corrupt.

Re: Starting today, YouTube is almost unusable on Firefox

#170

Post by roughly »

Culonavirus wrote: post #144
roughly wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d be shocked how shitty the development practices inside a bigco can be. Working at a FAANG-level company is profoundly disillusioning.

One of recent Chromium updates (affected Chrome's and Edge's wide release, not just betas) completely broke all pages with select elements containing a large amount of option elements. We're talking 100+ times slower parsing of the page. An internal tool of ours went from rendering pretty much instantly to 30s long hangs and/or crashes. Found the bug: https://issues.chromium.org/issues/341095522

From the thread:

> We’re now directing users to move away from Chrome

…to where, exactly?

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