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Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

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Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#161
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power cables are getting cheaper and cheaper. The expensive part used to be the voltage conversion stations at the ends, but with mass production of MOSFETs for EV's these have now become far cheaper than the JFET's and other exotic silicon that used to be used. In turn, that means voltages can be higher, letting one use more of the cheaper PVC or XLPE insulating material and less expensive aluminium for the same amo…

> The expensive part used to be the voltage conversion stations at the ends, but with mass production of MOSFETs for EV's these have now become far cheaper than the JFET's and other exotic silicon that used to be used. Why do you believe these things are related? HVDC lines operate in the hundreds-of-kilovolts range. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basslink operates at 400kV. There are no MOSFETs or JFETs…

Semiconductors are stackable to get higher voltage. They're parallelizable for more current. Cost scales linearly with voltage and current, and is therefore constant WRT to system power.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power cables are getting cheaper and cheaper. The expensive part used to be the voltage conversion stations at the ends, but with mass production of MOSFETs for EV's these have now become far cheaper than the JFET's and other exotic silicon that used to be used. In turn, that means voltages can be higher, letting one use more of the cheaper PVC or XLPE insulating material and less expensive aluminium for the same amo…

Would they be using AC or DC? I heard that very long cables using AC can be more lossy

It doesn't seem like anyone directly answered your question. As far as I am aware, all long distance undersea power cables are high voltage DC. I believe this has to do with the efficiency of power transfer over long distances.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power cables are getting cheaper and cheaper. The expensive part used to be the voltage conversion stations at the ends, but with mass production of MOSFETs for EV's these have now become far cheaper than the JFET's and other exotic silicon that used to be used. In turn, that means voltages can be higher, letting one use more of the cheaper PVC or XLPE insulating material and less expensive aluminium for the same amo…

Would they be using AC or DC? I heard that very long cables using AC can be more lossy

This is Australia, it's AC/DC!

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#164
post #139

I'm Aussie and I can't believe this Sun Cable project is being taken seriously by our government. The longest submarine power cable in the world - the Viking Link - is a mere 756 km long and cost US$2.2bn to build. Sun Cable calls for a 4,200km submarine cable to be built! I do not expect the construction cost to scale linearly and I shudder to imagine the maintenance difficulties and expenses. Back in December 2015,…

Its a great sound byte for the politicains. Politicians aren't known for the economic and business acumen. Sound bytes and promise of jobs get them elected.

Don't know the details of this project but if the cable is subsidized by the government it doesn't matter if it scales super or sublinearly, taxpayers are on the hook.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#165
post #7

Australia is going to have make it Rd2 of being an energy commodity superpower. 40 years of exporting coal to China, it can look forward to 1000's years of export solar to APAC.

China isn't gonna run out of coal anytime soon.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#166
post #139

I'm Aussie and I can't believe this Sun Cable project is being taken seriously by our government. The longest submarine power cable in the world - the Viking Link - is a mere 756 km long and cost US$2.2bn to build. Sun Cable calls for a 4,200km submarine cable to be built! I do not expect the construction cost to scale linearly and I shudder to imagine the maintenance difficulties and expenses. Back in December 2015,…

Why would it be superlinear instead of sublinear? I can understand that the combined probability of breakage along the line could be a maintenance problem but the construction cost should have many amortizable components that deliver some sort of economics of scale. I haven’t done the math so I have no idea on actual viability or if it’s a good idea or not.

It's a bad idea.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#167
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indonesia probably has enough land for its own panels.

Indonesia is ~ 17 thousand islands, many steep equatorial jungled volcanic slopes and at 275.5 million is the fourth highest population for a country globally. Land is in tight demand with food a priority over panels and issues that may not be apparent (clear slopes leads to instability, and keeping them clear is a Sisyphean task, etc).

Indonesia is possibly the best place on the world for floating PV at sea (rather than inland lakes as it usually is).

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#168
post #139

I'm Aussie and I can't believe this Sun Cable project is being taken seriously by our government. The longest submarine power cable in the world - the Viking Link - is a mere 756 km long and cost US$2.2bn to build. Sun Cable calls for a 4,200km submarine cable to be built! I do not expect the construction cost to scale linearly and I shudder to imagine the maintenance difficulties and expenses. Back in December 2015,…

That is nothing. Try Chile to China:

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/11/15/chile-wants-to-export...

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how well the Australian project is going (it's a long running project that's already late before even starting) I'm convinced that this project will have the same woes which comes from the mere fact of being massive long-term infrastructure projects and have nothing to do with nuclear being special. By the way, do you know what cost the most money on the HPC project? Loan interests, by a very large margin. Beca…

> By the way, do you know what cost the most money on the HPC project? Loan interests, by a very large margin. Because of the risk of project failure given the lack of government guarantees, they had to borrow at a baffling 9% interest rate in a world if zero interest rate. This is the insanity that drove the cost to the sky, not the engineering side of things. This is the first time I've heard of this, so I did a li…

Here's a report from the National Audit Office, which appears to be Prof. Dieter Helm's original source:

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Hinkley-Po...

Part 1.18 (page 22):

> "For example, if we assume the government financed the project and required a 2% return (nominal, equivalent to its borrowing cost)..."

Part 2.3 (page 27):

> "The investors expect their return on the project to be 9.04% over the 60-year operating life of HPC."

Also see Figure 19 on page 65, which summarises the different financing options, ranging from 100% state, the actual HPC deal, to 100% private.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#170
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty ignorant about Singapore, but... I get the impression it's quite small. Wikipedia says 750 sq km. The solar farm powering this Suncable project is 12,000 hectares, or 120 sq km. So the solar farm is 1/6th the size of Singapore. Although Singapore is only planning to buy around 1/3rd of the capacity, so maybe this'd be equivalent to only 40 sq km, or 1/20th the size of Singapore. I suspect there are more pr…

the country has a big housing affordability issue.

But the majority of Singaporeans live in public housing where rent is adjusted for income based via a grant system?
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