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China's manufacturers are going broke

economist.com

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Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#161

Post by aragonite »

fspeech wrote: post #131
derefr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China was actually trying to heavily establish offshoring in the Philippines—but that has seemingly dried up with the increasing South China Sea tensions.

I've never sensed any real desire for China to offshore to the Philippines, given its military alliance with the US. Maybe they dangle the prospect from time to time to try to pry the Philippines away. They have much friendlier targets in Southeast Asia, with Thailand and Malaysia at the top of the list.

Not only that, but the Philippines has a tiny manufacturing sector compared to other major SEA economies. [1][2] I wonder if grandparent was thinking of a different country.

[1]

> In 2021, the economic mix of the Philippine economy was approximately 61% services, 17.6% manufacturing, and 10.1% agriculture. (https://www.trade.gov/country-commercial-guides/philippines-...)

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_center_industry_in_the_...

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#162

Post by stubish »

aquamar2 wrote: post #153
tmnvix wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember as a kid hearing people throw around the term "Jap crap". Not for a long time. China has been going the same way. They are now capable of making very high quality products. Taiwan went down the same route, South Korea too. In the long term, it's not China that has a problem, it's complacent western manufacturing companies. It's not just a failure to innovate. Some have used their market power to exploit co…

[flagged]

I think most of the world is aware that all electronics including things like iPhones are made in China, even when they are not. It is just assumed, except for a few Japanese brands people might assume are actually made in Japan because they were historically.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#163

Post by lenkite »

illiac786 wrote: post #159
lenkite wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm.. merrily bombing the middle east ? There are occupation bases in Syria merrily looting oil. And selling $20 billion in weapons to bomb the middle east even more. Americans seem to have blinkers the size of titanosaurs and a "I cannot see it" attitude when it comes to their military.

Merrily is a slightly biased way of putting it I would say, but ok, it does happen, one can dispute why. Looting oil in Syria, I didn’t know this, do you have a source? Now, we are comparing, right, so let’s list what china is doing, shall we? Invading multiple neighbouring countries? Check. (Isn’t that the definition of imperialism?) Exterminating populations considered hostile? Check. And I’m not even talking about…

> Invading multiple neighbouring countries

Which nations has China "invaded" recently ? Kindly elaborate. Please note that the U.S. has occupation bases in both Iraq and Syria presently. U.S. military and intelligence has directly and in-directly killed more tens of thousands of civilians within the last decade in the middle-east. (I won't even go into the Syrian war sponsorship since whatever Obama did is "old news" to Americans now)

Looting of oil - there are several sources. But if you don't believe them - find a Syrian on telegram and ask him.

https://thecradle.co/articles/the-other-occupation-us-forces... https://thecradle.co/articles-id/21826

It was reasonably well reported that Delta crescent energy extracts oil from occupied Syrian oil fields - of-course passed off as propaganda in helping the Kurds in the U.S. media.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/03/delta-crescent-ener...

> Exterminating populations considered hostile?

Hello, Yemen ? The full sanctions block and complete intelligence analysis, weapons and targeting given to PMC's and "allied" forces causing the deaths of tens of thousands of people ? This was an extraordinary extermination of the civilian population that got black-holed in the U.S. media. Of-course any time the population resisted, they got bombed - even weddings.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/09/21/us-war-crimes-yemen-stop...

China's imperialism is orders of magnitude lower than the U.S. Its like comparing a ravaging T-Rex with a stubborn mouse.

PS: The U.S. has now merrily resumed bombing Yemen again since the last few months. Yes, I use the word "merrily" because executives of the American military sector are happy about this. Utterly no bias there, just point-blank honesty.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#164

Post by glompers »

peutetre wrote: post #152
ein0p wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Looks like militarism and imperialism are not compatible at that crazy new 21th century world Your faux confusion isn't really impressing anyone. Is the US, the most militarist and imperialist nation in the world by far at the moment, "compatible" with the "crazy new 21st century world"? I've also yet to see any practical examples of Chinese militarism or imperialism. I keep hearing that it's going to start happeni…

> I've also yet to see any practical examples of Chinese militarism or imperialism. Taiwan: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce8dy437pdno Tibet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Tibet_by_the_Peo... Xinjiang: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037 The Nine Dash Line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dash_line

And India: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53061476

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/01/opinion/india-china-himal...

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#165

Post by illiac786 »

lenkite wrote: post #163
illiac786 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Merrily is a slightly biased way of putting it I would say, but ok, it does happen, one can dispute why. Looting oil in Syria, I didn’t know this, do you have a source? Now, we are comparing, right, so let’s list what china is doing, shall we? Invading multiple neighbouring countries? Check. (Isn’t that the definition of imperialism?) Exterminating populations considered hostile? Check. And I’m not even talking about…

> Invading multiple neighbouring countries Which nations has China "invaded" recently ? Kindly elaborate. Please note that the U.S. has occupation bases in both Iraq and Syria presently. U.S. military and intelligence has directly and in-directly killed more tens of thousands of civilians within the last decade in the middle-east. (I won't even go into the Syrian war sponsorship since whatever Obama did is "old news"…

speaking of “blinkers the size of titanosaurs” as you put it, I don’t understand how you possibly cannot know this very long list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_of_the_Pe...

And again, I’m not saying the US are not imperialists, and they were the most imperialists for a very long while, but I really think China beat them. They still have less means to their imperialists ambitions, but their ambitions are by far bigger than these of the US nowadays.

In the end the conversation is a bit ridiculous, they are both very much imperialists, and it also depends on how you measure it. Russia is, from a political point of view, probably even more imperialist, they just have less means. The ratio means/ambitions of china is what put them at the top of this very sad list for me.

I didn’t know about the syria oil fields, I can’t even say I’m surprised though.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#166

Post by MangoCoffee »

maxglute wrote: post #121
aquamar2 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still doesn't work. 1.) Internal consumer demand for China has collapsed, due to real estate debt overhang, local government debt overhang, increasing job loss, and incoming and increasing college graduates. It's estimated that 80% of this year's current graduates are jobless. 2.) External demand for China has been decreasing, 3.5T total export in 2022, only 3.3T in 2023. probably below 3T this year. Due to geopoliti…

Work what? I think Ctrl+F China + collapse arguments still doesn't work. 1) Consumption is "sluggish", i.e. it's small positive growth instead of large precovid positive growth. It's not negative decline let alone collapse. Get off the FLG. Employment rate steady, including new grads at 20% accounting for those in school and not looking for work (i.e. the Chinese tertiary way), 40%-50% for graduate cohorts who takes…

> Who said EV was suppose to rescue PRC economy?

"How are China's 'new three' export pillars powering the economy?". https://news.cgtn.com/news/2024-03-07/How-are-China-s-new-th...

EV is literally one of the key pillars championed by the Chinese government as part of its 'new economy' initiative, straight from the horse's mouth.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#167

Post by [deleted] »

theaussiestew wrote: post #144
Terr_ wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's evidence of having more allies than China, not evidence of being more militaristic than China.

US: Has a gazillion military bases around the world and encircling China. Commenter: "That's totally not evidence of being more militaristic, US just has more friends" You just contradicted yourself. Having more military bases IS being militaristic.

[deleted]

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#168

Post by lenkite »

illiac786 wrote: post #165
lenkite wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Invading multiple neighbouring countries Which nations has China "invaded" recently ? Kindly elaborate. Please note that the U.S. has occupation bases in both Iraq and Syria presently. U.S. military and intelligence has directly and in-directly killed more tens of thousands of civilians within the last decade in the middle-east. (I won't even go into the Syrian war sponsorship since whatever Obama did is "old news"…

speaking of “blinkers the size of titanosaurs” as you put it, I don’t understand how you possibly cannot know this very long list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_of_the_Pe... And again, I’m not saying the US are not imperialists, and they were the most imperialists for a very long while, but I really think China beat them. They still have less means to their imperialists ambitions, but their ambit…

Please do not conflate territorial disputes with "invasion". When has China started bombing their neighbors - or any other nation for that matter ? At-least their territorial disputes are with the the nations neighbouring them and not nations across the world.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#169

Post by Terr_ »

defrost wrote: post #146
Terr_ wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's evidence of having more allies than China, not evidence of being more militaristic than China.

Bases in the Phillipines as a result of invading on the back of falsely accusing the Spanish of sinking the Maine .. "allies". Bases in Japan as a result of levelling all the major cities and using two atomic weapons .. "allies". Call it what you like, the US has a habit of beachheading bases across the globe and never leaving.

No, you're attacking a different straw-man argument. These are not the same question:

1. Is America today more militaristic than the PRC?

2. Has America been successfully militaristic in prior generations including ones which are now dead?

Each requires different evidence, answering one does not answer the other.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#170

Post by Terr_ »

theaussiestew wrote: post #144
Terr_ wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's evidence of having more allies than China, not evidence of being more militaristic than China.

US: Has a gazillion military bases around the world and encircling China. Commenter: "That's totally not evidence of being more militaristic, US just has more friends" You just contradicted yourself. Having more military bases IS being militaristic.

So you're telling me that North Korea is an extremely non militaristic nation of peace, simply because it has no foreign bases?

Your metric is flawed.

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