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CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

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Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#161

Post by borplk »

brandon272 wrote: post #70
rtpg wrote: post #40

A recurring theme in so many startups I've seen inside is how the CEO in particular is extremely aloof with regards to presence. Sometimes that translates to aloofness for staff, but what more often happens is that when the CEO _does_ come in they expect other people to be there. So long as the alignment is good they don't care, but when it's not aligned, they just assume nobody is ever around and get real pissy abou…

> Sometimes that translates to aloofness for staff, but what more often happens is that when the CEO _does_ come in they expect other people to be there. Anecdotally, I have seen companies that have "oscillations" in their WFH policy and this, in my experience, has often been the driver of it. Instead of putting trust in the process or the data, you will simply have a situation where the CEO or (especially) where a g…

Yes and some people don't appreciate that some jobs really do require quiet focus for extended periods of time.

Asking someone to be a programmer in a loud chaotic open office environment is not dissimilar to asking them to program while juggling two balls and sitting on a unicycle. Its just excess difficulty that doesn't need to be added on top of the jobs.

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#162

Post by chmod775 »

harimau777 wrote: post #63
chmod775 wrote: post #32

Sure, especially in leadership you will often find sociopaths, but there's plenty of people leading by example as well. The company I'm working at comes to mind, where every level of the hierarchy, including leadership, is on a an employment contract that pays a regular salary, allows WFH/remote, and has just regular paid vacation days. Despite everyone having the option of being fully remote, it is the leadership wh…

How do you find those other companies? I'm in the middle of a job hunt now and all I'm seeing are the $200K+ jobs and jobs that don't pay enough to live comfortably (e.g. $50-60K in NYC).

I'm not sure I'm able to help since I'm not from the US.

My current job pays 90k when converted to USD, but my employer is based in Germany. Most employees live all over Europe, and nobody is forced to live in any particular expensive city we have an office at.

You probably should be able to negotiate a better wage in those 60k jobs based on experience.

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#163

Post by saagarjha »

kolbe wrote: post #159
saagarjha wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the "if you're truly right clearly you would be rich using that information to trade" argument. Would you be willing to consider that the market is not always smart or a good measure of how we should value things?

Would you be willing to consider that some half baked theory about why CEOs are the manifestation of luck is actually just an unhealthy way of coping with failures?

Consider? Sure. I see a lot of evidence that points away from it, though.

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#164

Post by nitwit005 »

linotype wrote: post #62

Until people start leaving (and not joining) these companies en masse that have poor and hypocritical leadership, none of this will change.

People don't always have a choice. The remote only jobs appear to be getting more applicants, so workers are "voting with their feet".

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#165

Post by intended »

kelnos wrote: post #76
soulofmischief wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An ethically aligned company goes to reasonable lengths to allow employees to become shareholders.

Never at a level that would influence company direction, though, even if all the employees banded together. Which just sounds like a union, anyway. So why not just unionize instead...

This implies that employee and owner goals can’t ever align.

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#166

Post by ok_dad »

nox101 wrote: post #125
ern wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the introduction of WFH during the pandemic hurt a lot of IT workers in the long-run. In the interests of “fairness” they are being ordered back to the office post-Covid even when their work processes mean they can be done perfectly well remotely, and even if they have widely geographically-distributed teams. Anecdotal, but we had a team that was split with 50% working remotely before Covid, and we saw an imp…

I see the opposite. Conversations that used to happen in ear reach so I'd know what was going on with various team members and be able to contribute when I knew a solution are now conversation that happen in private chat or private VC. Productivity is way down. Even more interesting, a team lead lives in another country 6 times zones away. Some times they visit the main office for 1-2 weeks. Productivity shoots throu…

Well yea, when I go on a work trip I tend to work a lot more those weeks because I’m not home. That doesn’t mean productivity during those two weeks are representative of normal.

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#167

Post by intended »

listenallyall wrote: post #89
ceejayoz wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Executives work insane hours. Often quite a bit less than it looks on-paper when you remove the "working lunch" and "client dinner" and "meeting (at the country club)" and "reading emails while lounging on the private jet" bits.

Hypothetically, if all the CEO did was, once a quarter, take a private jet to meet a potential client in person for lunch - and just one of those 4 meetings actually landed a customer - but a $1 billion revenue customer - is that a problem for you? CEOs shouldn't be measured by hours clocked in, like a factory worker.

It’s a hypothetical- so no, of course not.

I will ask: why is it your CEO doing this, not your sales team?

And if your CEO is doing only 4 meetings a year, why can’t they do more ?

If you have a billion dollars in revenue per client, how many potential clients can you have ?

Won’t they run out of work in a few years?

At that point what value does the CEO add ? Will they still be going on trips for meetings which will never result in billion dollar revenues ?

I get the spirit of your point. To use it further, to understand it, we should scrutinize even the CEO role.

Assuming im a shareholder, why should we ‘subsidize’ a useless CEO at any point ?

The CEO is also an employee in the end.

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#168

Post by tayo42 »

borplk wrote: post #161
brandon272 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes that translates to aloofness for staff, but what more often happens is that when the CEO _does_ come in they expect other people to be there. Anecdotally, I have seen companies that have "oscillations" in their WFH policy and this, in my experience, has often been the driver of it. Instead of putting trust in the process or the data, you will simply have a situation where the CEO or (especially) where a g…

Yes and some people don't appreciate that some jobs really do require quiet focus for extended periods of time. Asking someone to be a programmer in a loud chaotic open office environment is not dissimilar to asking them to program while juggling two balls and sitting on a unicycle. Its just excess difficulty that doesn't need to be added on top of the jobs.

in hindsight its amazing anything actually ever got done

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#169

Post by ok_dad »

teractiveodular wrote: post #126
ern wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the introduction of WFH during the pandemic hurt a lot of IT workers in the long-run. In the interests of “fairness” they are being ordered back to the office post-Covid even when their work processes mean they can be done perfectly well remotely, and even if they have widely geographically-distributed teams. Anecdotal, but we had a team that was split with 50% working remotely before Covid, and we saw an imp…

I think the real pain comes from many managers discovering that if they're going to have remote workers, might as well go whole hog and hire them in Bangalore for 1/10th the price instead of paying SV salaries.

That’ll cause real pain for the management. Unless you pay near western market rates, you’re getting the bottom of the barrel in India or anywhere else, much like if you tried to hire US developers for even 50% of the market rate. The low priced contractors do such poor work it’s almost not useful.

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#170

Post by seizethecheese »

throw10920 wrote: post #131
seizethecheese wrote: post #17

This is engagement bait unless it has stats. What proportion of days are CEOs working remotely, what proportion are professional staff? As someone who has done shift work before, it seems to me that the real dividing line is between professionals and non-progressional, not CEOs vs professionals.

> This is engagement bait unless it has stats This is correct, and unfortunately describes a nontrivial fraction of articles submitted to HN from traditional media outlets. Use that flag button!

Done.
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