Isn't servo is in development for more than a decade? They already have legacy code before it even became stable, lol.
As opposed to Blink / WebKit, which ultimately descend from the 25 year old KHTML?
Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
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Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#162Does this do anything to improve the browser as a user agent? That is an agent that obeys the user over the server. None of the current browsers are user friendly and none are scriptable except by experts wielding large external programs. It should be possible to write a simple shell script to navigate the web, to log in to web sites, to extract information. Or something like Visual Basic.
The websites unfortunately do not want to co-operate with this idea.
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#163Does this do anything to improve the browser as a user agent? That is an agent that obeys the user over the server. None of the current browsers are user friendly and none are scriptable except by experts wielding large external programs. It should be possible to write a simple shell script to navigate the web, to log in to web sites, to extract information. Or something like Visual Basic.
I guess the closest thing to what you're describing is either conkeror(javascript) or nyxt(common lisp).
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#1641. The repository README doesn't explain what Servo is. From its own repo README:
https://github.com/servo/servo
"Servo is a prototype web browser engine written in the Rust language. It is currently developed on 64-bit macOS, 64-bit Linux, 64-bit Windows, and Android."
So, this browser seems to be about using Rust, and somewhat Mac-centric. Not criticizing, just emphasizing.
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2. The repository does not explain:
* How far along the project is.
* What are the benefits / points of attraction of the browser (or - perhaps it's more of a proof-of-concept?)
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3. The project has a highly repressive Code of Conduct:
* Forbidden behavior is open-ended and at the discretion of whoever handles a complaint.
* No due process: Anonymous complaints, in-abstentia proceedings, no right to face accuser, no right to access and review evidence, etc.
* The project leaders/owners presume to forbid community members from interacting with people whom project leaders decided to ban. This is a bit like how when the US sanctions a state, it also strong-arms everybody else to observe its sanctions or themselves get sanctioned by the US.
Bottom line: I would avoid getting close to that project, if the CoC is actually applied. If it isn't - very much recommend removing it.
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#165Isn't servo is in development for more than a decade? They already have legacy code before it even became stable, lol.
[flagged]
This is wrong. Servo development has picked up steam after merged into Linux Foundation, and multiple increasingly used Rust projects are all betting on Servo for the long term: Dioxus, Tauri, some others I forgot.
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
> > First off, Swift has both memory & data race safety (as of v6) > But v6 is not released yet, right As of Swift 5 there is zero data race protection and the process model (DispatchQueues if memory serves) is woefully. No advantage over fork and much more convoluted I am well clear of the Apple development world now (thank goodness) but the tools were of very poor quality, albeit very nice looking, as of this time…
> As of Swift 5 there is zero data race protection and the process model (DispatchQueues if memory serves) is woefully. No advantage over fork and much more convoluted Swift Concurrency is the replacement for Dispatch and has been around since Swift 5.5 in (IIRC) 2021. It’s a completely different system, uses lightweight tasks (a la tokio in rust, or goroutines in go, etc), has a concept of “Sendable” for thread-safe…
> Swift 5.5 didn’t get all the way towards rust-style data race
When I experimented with it it was trivial for one thread to interfere with another. So Swift got nowhere towards data race safety. Still stuck in the 1990s
I know not what you mean "Swift Concurrency". When I was doing it all we had was DispatchQueue which was an obfuscation of `fork`. Quite shameful really.
I think the main point is that Swift is a failure.
"although SC still has a ton of issues worth discussing" once I would have cared, but this year (decade, century) I am just very glad putting meat in my fridge no longer depends on those rouges from Apple who treated me so badly when I was sweating so hard making software for their platforms (not to mention paying them so much money). In 2024, for a company like Apple, for their flagship developer offering, why would anyone still have "a ton of issues" with it?
Apple is now an example of why popularity is a terrible metric to estimate quality of technical offerings. What a shame. How far the mighty have fallen
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m slightly more ambivalent than you about it. Swift is a nice language and has better ergonomics than C++ and I imagine a Swift codebase might find more contributors than a C++ one (maybe I’m wrong about that!) I also think it’s separate from the dream of “multiplatform Swift”. For that you need a healthy package ecosystem that all works cross platform, Swift doesn’t have that. But a lot of Ladybird is written at a…
> and has better ergonomics than C++ It is unfair to compare a twenty first century language with one from the 1980s Rust is the proper comparison The only advantage Swift has is an easier learning curve , but the ergonomics of Rust are far superior than Sift's
It’s not really a question of fairness. The existing codebase is C++, the new stuff is Swift. Hence the comparison.
I’ve written both Rust and Swift while being an expert in neither. I wouldn’t say Swift has no pluses in comparison, reference counting is often a lot easier to reckon with than lifetimes, for one. I’m actually curious what a large multithreaded Swift codebase looks like with recent concurrency improvements. Rust’s async story isn’t actually that great.
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#168I hope that this project will succeed. Incidentally, Verso is also the name of Lean 4’s DSL for typesetting documentation.[1] We are running out of words in the English language. [1] https://github.com/leanprover/verso
Verso is a latin word.
It’s also English. It means the left side page of a book.
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
But why would this change with a new browser written from scratch?
are you being intentionally ignorant? the more browsers in popular use, the less control each has. currently Chrome has more usage than the other browsers combined: https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share which means Google has significant control over web standards
A chromium fork is not chrome. Why assume a fork has to accept upsteam changes?
Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
are you being intentionally ignorant? the more browsers in popular use, the less control each has. currently Chrome has more usage than the other browsers combined: https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share which means Google has significant control over web standards
A chromium fork is not chrome. Why assume a fork has to accept upsteam changes?
why fork chrome rather than another browser, or starting from scratch?