10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023 • Hacker News Board

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#161

Post by xienze » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 9:20 PM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #106

I really want people to understand that a sterile term like "economic sanctions" really means "starving them to death". It's not just food. It's the infrastructure necessary to grow food and to have clean drinking water. It's basic medicines, life-saving stuff. What we, as a country, have done and continue to do to Cuba is absolutely unconscionable. It affects us too. Over the last 60+ years there have hundreds of th…

> Importing fascist or fascist adjacent people who ultimately became voters has changed US politics where Florida is now a safely red state.

And on the flip side, importing Central and South Americans who are socialist or socialist adjacent and ultimately become voters has changed US politics where California and other states are now safely blue.

> I find it interesting how this aspect of immigration is so often missed or glossed over^W^W^W^Wdismissed as a right wing conspiracy theory.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#162

Post by dimitrios1 » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 9:23 PM UTC

wkat4242 wrote: post #11

giancarlostoro wrote: post #6

I wonder what a sensible way forward for Cubans is, and their government. What would it take for the US to lift sanctions (I assume a radical shift within Cuba's government), and for Cuba itself (as a whole) to restructure their government in a way that would benefit them and everyone. Cuba would be a great travel destination. Their cigars aren't as on par anymore as far as I know, but there's potential there, Nicara…

Why does the US still have sanctions on them anyway? The missile crisis was 50 years ago. It's time to forgive.

https://thehill.com/opinion/4723678-cuba-russian-relations-c...

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#163

Post by BurningFrog » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 9:24 PM UTC

Note that it's only the US that has an embargo against Cuba.

The rest of the world trades pretty freely with them.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#164

Post by paxys » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 9:26 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #156

toast0 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cuba would be a great travel destination. It's been a while since I visited places outside the US, but one of the shocking things was travel ads for Cuba everywhere. From what I can tell, US-Cuban relations seem to be at the whim of the US President. Most of the US population doesn't care; most of the rest of the world has fine relations with Cuba, but isn't going to pressure the US. Nobody is sending missiles to C…

The people who really care are Cuban exiles around Miami. When Florida was a swing state, that was enough to make every presidential candidate be pro embargo. Now that Florida is a red state, it might be different.

The Cuban population of Miami is heavily republican and pro-embargo. This is why Obama got rid of it and Trump reinstated it.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#165

Post by rgbrenner » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 9:26 PM UTC

brigadier132 wrote: post #83

LtWorf wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah. So uk should sanction the whole USA, on account of that revolution that costed some people something?

They did and it took a war and a long time for relations to be reestablished

Not true. After the Treaty of Paris (1783) was signed, trade between the US and UK resumed almost immediately; and diplomatic relations were reestablished in 1785. Shortly after the war (1793), when France and Britain went to war, rather than back up the French, the US signed the Jay Treaty to maintain trade and positive relations with the UK... angering France who helped us gain independence.

Other than the revolutionary war from 1776 to 1785, the other break we had was from 1812-1815 during the War of 1812.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom%E2%80%93United_...

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#166

Post by wslh » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 9:27 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #163

Note that it's only the US that has an embargo against Cuba. The rest of the world trades pretty freely with them.

The article exactly says "US embargo".

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#167

Post by bdjsiqoocwk » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 9:28 PM UTC

wordsinaline wrote: post #69

vundercind wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of Floridians who are, or are descended from, folks who had their land and businesses seized during the revolution are holding grudges and won’t let go of them until they’re given their stuff back or a ton of money, which, this far on, isn’t happening. Florida is important in Presidential elections. US elections are structured such that dumb stuff like a relatively small—but loud—and also hopeless interest in…

I would still hold a grudge. I hold historical grudges going back centuries.

Right. I still want back Constantinople.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#168

Post by paxys » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 9:28 PM UTC

tehjoker wrote: post #91

Cuba's economy is not doing well because of the illegitimate and illegal US embargo. End the blockade. Take Cuba off the completely farcical State Sponsors of Terror list. Let Cuba live! Cuba developed its own COVID vaccine but couldn't give it to its own people because they could not buy metal for syringes. Its fucking crazy.

There is no blocade. Cuba is free to trade with whoever it wants, as is the US.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#169

Post by standardUser » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 9:28 PM UTC

giancarlostoro wrote: post #6

I wonder what a sensible way forward for Cubans is, and their government. What would it take for the US to lift sanctions (I assume a radical shift within Cuba's government), and for Cuba itself (as a whole) to restructure their government in a way that would benefit them and everyone. Cuba would be a great travel destination. Their cigars aren't as on par anymore as far as I know, but there's potential there, Nicara…

Obama opened up travel to Cuba. I went just months after his historic visit. There were still limitations, such as with currency, that made it a somewhat complicated travel destination. It would require more significant changes to make it a go-to vacation spot, but it's generally believed that is within presidential power.

Trump reverted the relationship back to Cold War status when he took office.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#170

Post by jltsiren » Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 9:29 PM UTC

SR2Z wrote: post #80

basisword wrote: post #53

It's interesting reading the opinions in the comments on this thread. As a non-US person, I don't have a strong opinion on Cuba. I'd like to visit someday but don't know much about it other than the headlines. Reading the comments here it sounds like a pariah state on the level of North Korea. With 1m people leaving in a year, it clearly has its issues - but lots of the comments here are a good example of how your co…

> Reading the comments here it sounds like a pariah state on the level of North Korea. The only reason it's NOT North Korea is the fact that it "allows" its people to flee to the United States, where by law they may become American citizens. Cuba has extremely effective propaganda - folks forget that it's actually a dictatorship which severely limits freedom of speech and brutally cracks down on protest. Wikipedia ha…

Comparing Cuba to North Korea makes no sense at all. You could compare it to the USSR or East Germany, but not North Korea.

North Korea is effectively a caricature of a totalitarian state, ruled by a cartoon villain. Cuba is more like an ordinary country unlucky enough to have a totalitarian government. There are plenty of equally bad countries in the world even today.