Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 276 posts

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#161

Post by [deleted] »

muzani wrote: post #149
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, but I've tripped with two people who showed seizure like symptoms that they never had before or since. Couldn't find any data at the time. Tried to get them to submit experience reports on erowid so that there would be some data out there, but they didn't want to put anything about it in writing.

Yeah, I think data on this would be hard to get. A tangential anecdote... I took a Pfizer COVID booster vaccine and saw my heart rate go up to resting above 100 on my calorie tracker watch. I talked with my doctor about this. He said he stayed away from the COVID boosters because they weren't a good balance of risk vs safety. I asked him whether high resting heart rates were a side effect. He said, no, there's no dat…

[deleted]

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#162

Post by brotchie »

_rs wrote: post #151
brotchie wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Before a controlled high dose Psilocybin experience I "felt" my emotions: Anger, Fear, Frustration. Afterwards, I gained the ability to observe and "catch" my emotions in-flight. Not sure if it was neuroplasticity induced by the substance, or "you don't know what your brain can do until you know it". I liken it to previously having Ring 1 access to my thoughts, now I have Ring 0 access. Definitely persistent:…

Do you mean you can catch them and stop them? Or catch them and say "oh I'm starting to feel angry" without letting the anger consume you, but still let it exist. I'd love any elaboration you can share on this

The feeling still exists, but I can observe it and can run a secondary self-introspection loop to unpack that feeling, and often dig deeper and resolve where they feeling is coming from.

Another way of putting is that I'm self aware that the "qualia" of feeling angry is being projected into my conscious experience as a token, rather than simply experiencing "feeling angry" qualia.

I liken it to being able to set a breakpoint on my emotions, and then single step through the root cause of that emotion.

I seriously didn't have that functionality in my brain before that hero dose trip (even after doing many years of meditation).

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#163

Post by newzisforsukas »

JohnMakin wrote: post #37
observationist wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around 1% of people have schizophrenia. This holds over a lifetime - there's a structural, unavoidable component to the person's neural wiring or physiology that will result in a schizophrenic break. Prior to the break, they may seem more or less normal, but after, they will experience deficits in cognition and perception, and may have significant barriers to living a normal life. Schizophrenics, as a rule, will have…

As I said in another post, the mental illness is not the issue here, the immediate access to a gun while blasted on shrooms is.

> In all the studies included in our review, we identified 11 deaths presumed to be completed suicides that can be fairly confidently linked to classic psychedelic use in a non-clinical context (four jumping from a height [of which one of these individuals was also intoxicated on alcohol], one walking into traffic [unclear intent], one drowning [alone on the beach with unclear intent], two self-stabbing with a sharp object or knife, and three with unclear methods). This supports the notion that noncontrolled environments where individuals are by themselves and have access to means for suicide, such as heights with no barriers and objects that can lead to hanging or self-stabbing, are likely unsafe contexts for psychedelic use, especially among individuals presenting with prior suicide risk. There is much evidence suggesting that restricting access to lethal means is a key method for suicide prevention in general, and it stands to reason that for those using psychedelic substances in non-clinical settings, the pre-emptive restriction of lethal means could help reduce the risk of suicide.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8033757/

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#164

Post by im3w1l »

zdragnar wrote: post #154
SoftTalker wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I took a Pfizer COVID booster vaccine and saw my heart rate go up to resting above 100 Temporarily or permanently?

My brother has this permanently, though whether a delayed reaction to the booster or from when he got COVID itself (a relatively mild case) not long after, there's no way to know. It has been a major detriment to his day to day life though. Any physically involved hobbies are impossible; just walking up a flight or two of stairs now leaves him completely winded for several minutes, as his heart rate also takes longer…

Maybe it's running at high rate to compensate for some issue? An issue that could be found and resolved?

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#165

Post by im3w1l »

elzbardico wrote: post #133
aatd86 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Access to weapons is also a problem. That could have been a transient event he would have recovered from.

In my life I met two people who survived botched suicide attempts without using firearms. When someone decides to do it, they will try, and there are things worse than dying.

> When someone decides to do it, they will try, and there are things worse than dying.

Science disagrees. Many attempts are impulsive and a minor hurdle can be enough to stop them.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#166

Post by newzisforsukas »

brotchie wrote: post #94
lawlessone wrote: post #31

>Healthy adults were tracked before, during and for 3 weeks after high-dose psilocybin (25 mg) and methylphenidate (40 mg), and brought back for an additional psilocybin dose 6–12 months later. Not simultaneously I hope.. that sounds like it would be a rough ride

"it can generally be assumed that there is approximately 15 mg (+/- 5 mg) of psilocybin per gram of dried mushroom" -Wikipedia So 25mg is ~1.5g of dried mushrooms. Decent dose, but not a "omg I'm one with the universe." For instance, a "Hero Dose" typically starts at 5g of dried mushrooms, so ~3x the dosage used in the study. Though it's possible the uptake rate using their dosing mechanism is much higher than "stoma…

> So 25mg is ~1.5g of dried mushrooms.

1.25g - 2.5g *

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#167

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

foobiekr wrote: post #129
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, but I've tripped with two people who showed seizure like symptoms that they never had before or since. Couldn't find any data at the time. Tried to get them to submit experience reports on erowid so that there would be some data out there, but they didn't want to put anything about it in writing.

Are you sure shrooms? If chocolates or gummies the compound therein is not quite the same as recent news stories have noted.

Yeah, I grew them. I didn't sequence them for identification, but they were phenotypically P. Cubensis, as advertised on the spore syringe.

In neither case was it a big deal in the long run (not exactly great vibes in the short term though). I used to be a pretty enthusiastic user, so "just two times" is indeed uncommon.

Hopefully with the recent trend of decriminalization we can get together some respected data about this sort of thing. I still believe that psilocybin has been a net positive thing for most people who have tried it (including these two cases).

Even if the seizure thing were confirmed, all the conventional wisdom re: tripping remains unchanged. Be in a safe place with trusted people, consider a trip sitter, etc. On the other hand, I think having the data might help drive some better decisions: Situations you might avoid (e.g. swimming), etc.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#168

Post by isatty »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #69
TechDebtDevin wrote: post #17

PSA: My buddy shot himself in the head while we were on shrooms in our twenties. He thought he meant God, took a shower picked up a gun and shot himself in the head. While I've had trips since then and do get benefits from those experiences. People without experience should be careful, especially if you have a history of mental illness. He did have a history to some degree but not overtly.

Part of the lesson of this story is the danger of having a gun in the home at all. He could have been sober and depressed and did the same just as easily thanks to having access to a gun. There's a lot of statistical evidence for how dangerous situations like depression or domestic violence can become once a gun is nearby.

On the other hand, he could’ve very easily found another way without the gun.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#169

Post by fullspectrumdev »

throwaway3306a wrote: post #103
fullspectrumdev wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most European countries you have to store the firearm in a locked safe, often with the bolt removed or the weapon disassembled and - quite often - with the ammunition stored separately in another locked container/safe. It’s a lot more “steps to take” to commit suicide than “take the weapon from your nightstand and shoot yourself”, given you have to unlock usually more than one safe/lockbox.

I assume that's not any of the concealed carry countries as that would completely defeat the point of having the gun. Definitely not the case where I live.

The countries allowing CC are - unfortunately - in the minority in Europe.

Among the ones that do allow CC, most of them that’s a special permit that seems to have an exception to the storage requirements for personal protection.

Personally I wish more of Europe would emulate the Czech Republic in this matter…

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#170

Post by newzisforsukas »

cthalupa wrote: post #80
Unbefleckt wrote: post #52

While it's amusing in the short term, the long term side effects for me were awful. I felt like my brain was slow and unfocused, I was no longer quick in conversation or able to concentrate as well as usual, I felt disconnected from myself, sort of like when you recall a memory so old that it seems like it belongs to someone else, I had a headache for almost 3 weeks. Throwing this in here as there are a fair few "dud…

That's interesting, because I don't that anyone really has reported these side effects and I don't believe there are any known pharmacological effects from psilocybin or psilocin that would cause any of that. Were they dried mushrooms you ate? Do you trust the provenance of them? If they were a chocolate bar or similar, many of those do not actually have psilocybin or psilocin in them, and are instead using a variety…

> I don't believe there are any known pharmacological effects from psilocybin or psilocin that would cause any of that

What are your qualifications to make a claim like that? There hasn't been much clinical research in humans using psilocybin until very recently [1], and they certainly do not cover the range of different species of mushrooms that contain the alkaloids [2].

1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11016263/

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psilocybin_mushroom_sp...

Post reply on HN