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Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

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Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#161

Post by fortran77 »

zh3 wrote: post #148
umvi wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not as scary as flying upside down which is what I originally thought based on title alone. Most people are familiar with "barrel roll" but by comparison this just looks like wiggling. Counterintuitively though my understanding is that barrel rolls are generally safe even for large planes since it's a stable 1G maneuver (some jock irresponsible air force pilot used to regularly barrel roll B-52s until he did one too…

Probably wasn't a B52. Tex Johnston was reknowned for barrel rolling a 707 during a demo back in the day - there's grainy video of it on youtube. Apparently the Boing execs at the demo didn't know it was going to happen and nearly had heart attacks when he did. Video on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz1Eze3QrDU

Tex Johnson

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#162

Post by FabHK »

zh3 wrote: post #148
umvi wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not as scary as flying upside down which is what I originally thought based on title alone. Most people are familiar with "barrel roll" but by comparison this just looks like wiggling. Counterintuitively though my understanding is that barrel rolls are generally safe even for large planes since it's a stable 1G maneuver (some jock irresponsible air force pilot used to regularly barrel roll B-52s until he did one too…

Probably wasn't a B52. Tex Johnston was reknowned for barrel rolling a 707 during a demo back in the day - there's grainy video of it on youtube. Apparently the Boing execs at the demo didn't know it was going to happen and nearly had heart attacks when he did. Video on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz1Eze3QrDU

Bob Hoover rolled a plane while pouring a tea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9pvG_ZSnCc

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#163

Post by kstrauser »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #134
FabHK wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they simply did not like this particular plane. …and employed a face-saving (though probably very expensive) way of communicating it.

I suspect the face saving culture is holding China back significantly since it adds a ton of noise to interpersonal signal propagation. I wonder if the government is doing anything social engineering-y to try to reduce it?

The government is among the worst of the culprits. “We’re being accused of doing a bad thing? I know! Arrest the speaker and erase it from our version of the Internet!”

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#164

Post by mlcrypto »

dboreham wrote: post #115
mlcrypto wrote: post #65

This is an aircraft worth taking great lengths to avoid. Cancelling important trips, meetings, etc.

Statistically it is not. Most of the time travellers don't know if they're on an Airbus or Boeing aircraft and hardly ever figure out that it's a MAX.

Infinite loss multiplied by small chance is still infinite risk

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#165

Post by jgalt212 »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #134
FabHK wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they simply did not like this particular plane. …and employed a face-saving (though probably very expensive) way of communicating it.

I suspect the face saving culture is holding China back significantly since it adds a ton of noise to interpersonal signal propagation. I wonder if the government is doing anything social engineering-y to try to reduce it?

seriously. Look at the Kardashians. They turned every embarrassing event into a money making opportunity.

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#167

Post by account42 »

SonicScrub wrote: post #62
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, could this be caused by turbulence? Winds? Looking at the video, now i'm not sure I haven't been through some dutch rolls also.

Dutch Roll is a coupling of yawing and rolling dynamic modes, and is a product of the aircraft's aerodynamics. If the aircraft is disturbed off a steady-state path either by control input, changing winds, or turbulence, then it should return back to it's steady-state path with oscillations that quickly dampen. Dutch Roll is a phenomenon where these oscillations grow rather than dampen as a result of out-of-phase yaw…

> This is different than the aircraft just being batted around by turbulence.

Does it actually look different or is it just a different cause for similar movement patterns?

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#168

Post by neuronic »

agurk wrote: post #123
umvi wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not as scary as flying upside down which is what I originally thought based on title alone. Most people are familiar with "barrel roll" but by comparison this just looks like wiggling. Counterintuitively though my understanding is that barrel rolls are generally safe even for large planes since it's a stable 1G maneuver (some jock irresponsible air force pilot used to regularly barrel roll B-52s until he did one too…

I'm not aware of a B-52 being crashed in a barrel roll, but this did make me think of the 1994 Fairchild crash[0] that was caused by a pilot who was known as dangerous due to excessive self confidence. In this case he banked too tightly at low level causing a stall into the ground. The whole crash was caught on camera[1], which is indelibly burnt into my memory. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Fairchild_Air_…

The last 3 seconds of your life as the copilot must have been some revolting emotion knowing that the overconfident asshole in the seat next to you just killed you.

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#169

Post by zh3 »

fortran77 wrote: post #161
zh3 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably wasn't a B52. Tex Johnston was reknowned for barrel rolling a 707 during a demo back in the day - there's grainy video of it on youtube. Apparently the Boing execs at the demo didn't know it was going to happen and nearly had heart attacks when he did. Video on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz1Eze3QrDU

Tex Johnson

Thanks, corrected.
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