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Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

security.apple.com

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Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#161

Post by sneak »

transpute wrote: post #74
wmf wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have no threat model and want to opt out of random features just because... you probably shouldn't use Apple products at all. Or Google or Microsoft.

For years, Apple has a documented set of security policies to disable off-device processing (e.g iCloud, Siri), via MDM / Apple Configurator. Apple also published details needed for enterprise network filtering to limit Apple telemetry, if all you want from Apple servers are software security updates and notifications. With a hardened configuration, Apple has world-class device security. In time, remote PCC may prove…

Apple does not publish details to limit telemetry. Nowhere in MDM or in their docs do they tell you that you can safely block xp.apple.com (telemetry) but not gs.apple.com (boot ticket signing server for updates).

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#162

Post by sneak »

ein0p wrote: post #78

It is not possible for this to be fully private in the United States because the government not only can force Apple to open up the kimono, it can also forbid it to talk about it. There’s not really anything Apple can do to work around this “limitation”. Thank your “representative” for extending the PATRIOT Act when you get a chance.

It seems to me that this security architecture is a direct response to the hostile regulatory environment Apple finds themselves in wrt USA PATRIOT and the CCP et al.

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#163

Post by sneak »

tantalor wrote: post #82
ein0p wrote: post #78

It is not possible for this to be fully private in the United States because the government not only can force Apple to open up the kimono, it can also forbid it to talk about it. There’s not really anything Apple can do to work around this “limitation”. Thank your “representative” for extending the PATRIOT Act when you get a chance.

Warrant canary

The orders in question aren’t search warrants and don’t require probable cause.

70,000+ Apple user accounts are surveilled in this manner every year.

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#164

Post by wmf »

goupil wrote: post #146

It's sad to see so many discussions on security and so little on privacy. How about solutions that could combine both, such as homomorphic encryption for AI?

Privacy is the entire point of this discussion?

Homomorphic encryption is mostly a fantasy at this point.

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#165

Post by lurking_swe »

zer00eyz wrote: post #31

I have a big question here. Who is this for? Dont get me wrong I think it's a great effort. This is some A+ nerd stuff right here. It's speaking my languge. But Im just going to figure out how to turn off "calls home". Cause I dont want it doing this at all. Is this speaking to me so I tell others "apple is the most secure option"? I don't want to tell others "linux" because I don't want to do tech support for that.…

Me

I don’t care if the government has access to the data. I just don’t want “bad actors” (scammers, foreign governments, ad-tech companies, insurance companies, etc) to have access to my private data. But i also want the power of LLM’s. Does that sound so far fetched?

I’m a realist. I already EXPECT the US govt has all my data. I don’t like the status quos, but it is what is is.

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#166

Post by vaylian »

loteck wrote: post #23

Some good comments on this from cryptographer Matt Green here: https://x.com/matthew_d_green/status/1800291897245835616?t=C... (I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man) Edit: here's his thread combined https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1800291897245835616.html?...

> (I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man)

He actually has an active Mastodon account, but this particular story is not on there (yet): https://ioc.exchange/@matthew_d_green

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#167

Post by hapticmonkey »

zer00eyz wrote: post #31

I have a big question here. Who is this for? Dont get me wrong I think it's a great effort. This is some A+ nerd stuff right here. It's speaking my languge. But Im just going to figure out how to turn off "calls home". Cause I dont want it doing this at all. Is this speaking to me so I tell others "apple is the most secure option"? I don't want to tell others "linux" because I don't want to do tech support for that.…

It's for shareholders. Microsoft and Nvidia have a bigger market cap than Apple now, thanks to the AI investor boom. Apple need to show they can be all about AI, too. But Apple have the institutional culture to maintain privacy.

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#168

Post by hexage1814 »

The thing with cloud and with anything related to it, anything that connects to the internet somehow... is that, unless it's open source and the servers decentralized, you are always trusting SOMEONE. Sure, Apple might make their best to ensure nobody – but them – have access to your data... but Apple controls all the end points. It controls the updates your iPhone receives, it controls the servers where this happens. Like, they are so many opportunities for them to find what you are doing. It reminds me of this article "Web-based cryptography is always snake oil"

https://www.devever.net/~hl/webcrypto

And to be fair, this doesn't apply only to this case. Even the data you have stored locally, Apple could access it if they wanted, they sure have power to do it if they so wish or were ordered by the government. They might have done it already and just didn't told anyone for obvious reasons. So, I would argue the best you could say is that it's private in the sense that only Apples knows/can know what you are doing rather than a larger number of entities .

Which, you could argue it's a win when the alternatives will leak your data to many more parts... But still far away from being this unbreakable cryptography that it's portrayed it to be.

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#169

Post by quenix »

aalimov_ wrote: post #118
ein0p wrote: post #78

It is not possible for this to be fully private in the United States because the government not only can force Apple to open up the kimono, it can also forbid it to talk about it. There’s not really anything Apple can do to work around this “limitation”. Thank your “representative” for extending the PATRIOT Act when you get a chance.

Their post sure makes it seam like it’s possible. Was there something that stood out to you?

I mean, the software running on the client (phone/mac/ipad) is closed-source and, if we assume Apple is compromised, can be made to circumvent all of these fancy protections at the push of a button.

If pressured by the government, Apple can simply change the client software to loosen the attestation requirements for private compute. And that would be the most inconspicuous choice.

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#170

Post by seydor »

hexage1814 wrote: post #168

The thing with cloud and with anything related to it, anything that connects to the internet somehow... is that, unless it's open source and the servers decentralized, you are always trusting SOMEONE. Sure, Apple might make their best to ensure nobody – but them – have access to your data... but Apple controls all the end points. It controls the updates your iPhone receives, it controls the servers where this happens…

> if wanted.

Or if someone compels them to

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