Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why are debut novels failing to launch?

esquire.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 260 posts

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#161

Post by frutiger »

serf wrote: post #143
frutiger wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a one-way, time-traveling message in a bottle So too is DNA in children. You don’t get to choose the entirety of the message but you do get to choose the half of the lottery that they must receive. And that message is likely to far outlive any message in any dead tree or electronic book.

where there is increased opportunity there is usually increased risk; it's hardly a relative comparison. also no one really chooses their offspring's 'half of the lottery', it's an accident of nature -- we only get to choose whether or not we try to propagate our own skew into the lottery roll. and to be very real here for a second, 99% of sexual interaction has nothing to do with genetic time-traveling bottle-messag…

> also no one really chooses their offspring's 'half of the lottery', it's an accident of nature -- we only get to choose whether or not we try to propagate our own skew into the lottery roll

In modern societies, most people choose their mating partner. That’s the lottery half that I am referring to.

Of course no one chooses specifically which half of each mate goes into the child. That would be absurd.

> and to be very real here for a second, 99% of sexual interaction has nothing to do with genetic time-traveling bottle-messages, and just as few people really give a thought about the genetic combinations resulting from their actions.

For the individual sure “it’s just deliberate sex” but for the genome, transmission of the message into the distant future is all there is.

Just look around you, you will likely see and hear more evidence of those billion year long message transmissions than anything else.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#162

Post by Narishma »

o11c wrote: post #84
rudyfink wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you said reminded me of this Royal Road ( https://www.royalroad.com/home ) website I came across. It is not physical publishing (at least I don't think so), but it is a large collection of different authors who release books / work incrementally. The work mainly seems to be fiction of different varieties.

RoyalRoad has at least 3 major problems: * there's a significant conflict between "this is a place to read stories" and "this is just a place to advertise for Amazon" * the effective site rules are unwritten and quite arbitrary (one unwritten rule: you are not allowed to say anything positive about real-ish religions, only negative things) * way too much pedophilia, including in site-promoted stories. Unlike religion…

Another problem is the ratings. Everything there seems way overrated. You'll see a ton of 5-star or 4-star ratings for things that are barely readable.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#163

Post by ghaff »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #138
boznz wrote: post #4

Spent several years writing and editing my first book before thinking the job was finished when I hit the publish now button. But it is literally only half the job done. The hell now is unless you get friends and family or an agency involved to push it and market it it will languish on the 500th page of any Amazon search forever. Oh and did I say that there are thousands of books a day released and there is nowhere y…

Same experience for me in another domain (indie apps). I’m okay with getting better at marketing, and allowing for the possibility of lack of product market fit. I’m less okay with believing I have to become Extremely Online to “build my personal brand,” just to have a chance at launching things successfully. That’s some bullshit that they peddle to justify their own addiction. It’s learned helplessness to platforms.

You have to promote somehow. No one is going to do it for you for free. You can hire a publicist, take out advertising, speak at events, etc. and none of those probably count as "social media" but they're neither effort nor cost-free.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#164

Post by Draiken »

ido wrote: post #99
boznz wrote: post #4

Spent several years writing and editing my first book before thinking the job was finished when I hit the publish now button. But it is literally only half the job done. The hell now is unless you get friends and family or an agency involved to push it and market it it will languish on the 500th page of any Amazon search forever. Oh and did I say that there are thousands of books a day released and there is nowhere y…

there is nowhere you can self-promote stuff if you do not have social media Isn't the solution (I know it's not that easy) to have social media?

I believe social media [with a big following] is implied. Otherwise it's useless too.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#165

Post by desert_rue »

ido wrote: post #99
boznz wrote: post #4

Spent several years writing and editing my first book before thinking the job was finished when I hit the publish now button. But it is literally only half the job done. The hell now is unless you get friends and family or an agency involved to push it and market it it will languish on the 500th page of any Amazon search forever. Oh and did I say that there are thousands of books a day released and there is nowhere y…

there is nowhere you can self-promote stuff if you do not have social media Isn't the solution (I know it's not that easy) to have social media?

there is nowhere you can self-promote stuff if you do not have social media [with a significant following]

They forgot the last bit.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#166

Post by api »

BarryMilo wrote: post #53

I'm currently starting a publishing company in a niche Canadian market. What people in these comments (and really, most places on the internet) fail to grasp is the role of the publisher as a curator and editor. Unlike your friends, the editor is not your friend. They don't have a stake in your ego, they won't sugarcoat it beyond the veneer of professionalism. You need an editor who is not your friend, too say no to…

If I were writing a book I’d definitely consider a real publisher but before that I’d be tempted to pay someone independent to be an editor and be bad cop. A student or remote worker with literary chops would do that as a first pass. Pay them to tell me what about my book sucks before wasting an editors time with a submission.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#167

Post by ghaff »

langsoul-com wrote: post #155

Reminds me of Diddy Squat, the farming show by Jeremy Clarkson. Farming, just by itself, is not profitable, so they need to do all kinds of things to make profit. Likr setting up a store, making a branded product, Ie making beer from the wheat, or social media on farm life. The tragedy is all the time required not farming. In the case of books, to first debut, you must already be successful or perish. Even getting ac…

And it helps to know people. The one time I went through a publisher it was pretty much by accident because I had dinner with the appropriate acquisitions person and the managing director and then we ironed out details when I was in London a couple months later.

I was intending to write the book anyway but wasn't planning on going through a publisher.

Didn't make any material money but it was very useful professionally.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#168

Post by api »

BarryMilo wrote: post #79
lachaux wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike your friends, the editor is not your friend. It is true. I would like to qualify it by saying "At the beginning, the editor is not your friend." A friendship, even very strong one, can be developed along the time, based on mutual respect and appreciation, temperament match, etc. Even then, a good editor will still be professional and be honest when they edit the writer's draft. A good book may not be a "succ…

Good points all around! It's funny because I expect most of us do it for the art, but artistic merit doesn't pay the rent. This is why many smaller publishers have "locomotives" that are guaranteed to sell so they can publish "good" literature books that won't sell. Don't know about the big American ones, seeing as they're flooding the market I assume they're just playing a numbers game, let God sort them out...

Loads of industries use hits to pay for the entire rest of the industry with the “for the art” stuff often at best making small returns.

It’s even true in tech. Most VC backed companies fail but the few mega-successes fund the entire ecosystem.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#169

Post by dangus »

boznz wrote: post #4

Spent several years writing and editing my first book before thinking the job was finished when I hit the publish now button. But it is literally only half the job done. The hell now is unless you get friends and family or an agency involved to push it and market it it will languish on the 500th page of any Amazon search forever. Oh and did I say that there are thousands of books a day released and there is nowhere y…

Financially successful writers embrace the sales and marketing game. Like you said, writing the book is only half (or less!) of the work required to get someone to read it.

That means constantly engaging their target audience, setting up booths at conventions, posting interesting content on social media, etc.

Writing for yourself is a wonderful thing. But if you do want more people to read your work, I would recommend scrapping the idea of avoiding social media and treat your social media presence like a business treats social media. For you it’s not a toxic doomscrolling app, it’s an app you use for your business during your business hours to market your business.

Let’s be real, so far you’ve basically talked about how you’ve been unwilling to do anything besides write.

> The hell now is unless you get friends and family or an agency involved to push it and market it it will languish on the 500th page of any Amazon search forever.

Sure, that will be the case if you just click publish and sit back doing nothing hoping for some sales. I sure hope my family and friends market my book for me, because I don’t want to be in social media!

And, hey, that’s fine, not everyone wants their hobby to be some kind of side business. But I sense a bit of disappointment in your comment almost like you tried everything and still haven’t gained traction, which doesn’t seem to be the case.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#170

Post by naveen99 »

mikemitchelldev wrote: post #157

A debut novel that's not published is not necessarily a wasted effort. It can be adapted into a screenplay, which can be submitted to a variety of outlets, and the novel might be published later if successful.

Looks like I found a debut hn comment.
Post reply on HN