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Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

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Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#161

Post by leetcrew »

semi wrote: post #112
ASalazarMX wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of Steve Jobs and his absolute refusal to let flash run on the iPhone. I think we're better now for that, but we had a few rough years for that.

Maybe, or maybe it's like his refusal to allow apps to force everything to be a web app, and Tesla will realize they are better off just having more sensors and more data

I kinda agree with steve jobs on both of those calls. if your "mobile app" is just a wrapper around a web page, I'd rather just have a bookmark shortcut on my homescreen. what's the value add?

I don't think either of those is very similar to the wiper thing. one is using the leverage of owning a major OS to force third parties to do something better for the end user in a context where the stakes are pretty low (ie, no one is going to die). even if it works out in the long run, the wiper only benefits tesla. and in the meantime it is a serious safety risk for the end user.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#162

Post by benhurmarcel »

selcuka wrote: post #80
ra7 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Combination of cost savings and “first principles” thinking. They tried to save $5 per car by not including a rain sensor. It’s a few million dollars in savings at their scale. At the same time, they spend time and resources engineering a “smart” solution to auto wipers using cameras. And they continue to spend effort on that because it still doesn’t work. Penny wise, pound foolish.

Obviously it's not the $5, but the research that matters. We are beta-testing their vision based rain detection algorithm for them, for free (in fact we are paying $5 to test it).

That data would be a lot more valuable to them if it was paired with an actual rain sensor though.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#163

Post by cma »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #28
dontreact wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon’s belief that humans doing it with vision is proof it can be done with video

Humans do it with variable focus vision. The Tesla cameras are permanently focused at infinity.

For seeing rain it's mostly that they are offset back from the windshield more. People over 50 barely have variable focus vision and it isn't really important in driving.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#164

Post by csa »

tempestn wrote: post #155
csa wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Using a touch screen to control wiper speed seems insane. Honestly, I think that this is overblown. Tap the end of the left stick and then use left scroll wheel to adjust. Or use the voice command (e.g., “turn on wipers” or “increase wiper speed by 1”). The “bad” part of the wipers is that some folks new to the car don’t know how to operate them if they have not read the manual. Shitty drivers are going to do stupi…

Yes, now you can tap the button and then use the scroll wheel to adjust, but as I said, that option has literally only been available for a week or two, at least on my car. For the first three years of ownership you were stuck with the touchscreen. (And even with that ability you need to change it constantly because the auto level is rarely right, for reasons in the OP, and you can't bias it up or down.) Ha, or yes,…

> For the first three years of ownership you were stuck with the touchscreen.

Tap end of left stick and hit setting on bottom left of screen (in US) with peripheral vision or a tiny fraction of a second of a glance.

I mean, none of this required navigating menus or staring at a complex/busy screen unless someone was trying to be obtuse. If this tiny fraction of a second is actually an issue for anyone, then I think that either: 1) they have other issues (e.g., irrational levels of control expected), or 2) they’re just a really bad driver, or 3) they didn’t rtfm on their car with a unique design.

As a simple example, one will trivially look at the controls of a rental car or a friend’s or family member’s waaaaaay more than the wiper controls on a Tesla, yet no one that I am aware of is writing about those on HN or other mainstream social media.

The Tesla system is new and different, and so people just seem to like to bitch about new stuff, especially when it involves Tesla.

> Don't get me started on how many times I tried "set wiper speed to 1" or similar and instead got max speed

Regarding your voice controls, I hope you see why your input was unclear (“to/two one”).

From the manual:

BEGIN QUOTE

Windshield Wipers

Update the windshield wiper speed and frequency based on changing road and weather conditions:

"Speed up the wipers"

"Increase/decrease windshield wiper speed by..."

"Turn on/off the wipers"

END QUOTE

Have you tried these exact commands?

They have worked very consistently for me.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#165

Post by kayodelycaon »

pseudosavant wrote: post #130
kayodelycaon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla vehicles lack a rain sensor. Here’s how a proper rain sensor works https://youtu.be/TLm7Q92xMjQ?si=Yb-_TBYbPIuPXk_p

It would seem like you could sense rain hitting the roof through its acoustic signature using a contact piezo mic. That'd probably have a much larger effective sensing area than the IR sensor.

You don't need a large sensor area or complex audio analysis. A spot with a few IR diodes on the windshield is going to get wet if it's raining hard enough to need wipers.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#166

Post by ASalazarMX »

ohmyiv wrote: post #146
ASalazarMX wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Touch is probably only needed to feel when you bump into something you didn't see, hopefully at low speed... but taste, yuck!

>Touch is probably only needed to feel when you bump into something you didn't see I think you're underestimating the importance of touch, especially when it comes to steering and pedal control.

That's a limitation of us. We need touch and indicators to gauge how effective we are, but a machine can precisely throttle 23% or keep the steering wheel at 19 degrees without need to gauge how hard it is pushing the actuators. Touch is nice, but hardly crucial for driving.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#167

Post by trogdor »

glimshe wrote: post #158
yareal wrote: post #13

Autowiper sensors are some of the simplest, well understood technology around. You place an infrared led at a low angle to the windshield, you place an ir collector so the light from the LED hits it. (Remember that at shallow angles, light reflects off glass.) When water is on the sensor, the angle of refraction and reflection change, and the ir collector suddenly sees much less light. Two components, plus a microcon…

It reminds me of that old story where NASA spent millions to develop a pen that works in space, while the Soviets simply used a pencil.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-write-stuff/

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#168

Post by relaxing »

makeitdouble wrote: post #100
ra7 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Combination of cost savings and “first principles” thinking. They tried to save $5 per car by not including a rain sensor. It’s a few million dollars in savings at their scale. At the same time, they spend time and resources engineering a “smart” solution to auto wipers using cameras. And they continue to spend effort on that because it still doesn’t work. Penny wise, pound foolish.

The weirdest part from the outside: reliably detecting it's raining should have obvious positive impact on the driving side as well. For instance to better interpret the tires slipping, or even anticipate worse precision from some of the sensors.

You do not want to start making handling adjustments based on rain on the windshield, when the road could already be slick from prior rainfall or other conditions.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#169

Post by _heimdall »

ineedaj0b wrote: post #99
_heimdall wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frame damage is actually pretty straightforward on cars that actually have a frame (i.e. aren't unibody). The problem with repair costs in modern cars is all the sensors, cameras, complex paint jobs, airbags, etc. Those expenses add up quickly, combined with the added costs of body panels and trim for certain brands and costs really get insane - it shouldn't be a surprise that car insurance costs keep growing much fa…

it's still not easy. - many years growing up fixing up race cars and such. hardest part besides engine repair

Definitely depends on the type of damage. Cracks and rust aren't a big deal at all, a twisted frame due to a corner collision is a royal pain.

In the context of price to repair though, I'd still rather be dealing with a car with a damaged frame rather than a modern car with loads of sensors, body panels, etc that all need replacing.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#170

Post by _yb2s »

fastball wrote: post #157
_yb2s wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no doubt to give him the benefit of… even in your version they still decided to ship a basic feature that doesn’t work in a production automobile. Other car manufacturers push teams hard to develop new tech also, but they also test the heck out of them so they’re 100% functional before they would put it into production. Piech was famous for outlandish demands on engineers at VW, but his demands took the form…

I'm not defending the mindset, just pointing out that this is what I would assume is going on in his head. And like him or not, his companies have delivered a lot of innovation in the past.

Fair point- that does seem like a likely explanation, I am just horrified that it would lead to putting broken systems on a mass produced production automobile.
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