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Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

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Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#161

Post by lamename »

fastball wrote: post #133
akozak wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the "coup" framing a lot I just don't see how that's justified. They're the board of directors! Hiring and firing the CEO is core to the job (as is maintaining mission alignment, in the nonprofit world).

I think the "coup" framing is supported at least by Helen Toner's claims in this article. > "We were very careful, very deliberate about who we told, which was essentially almost no one in advance, other than obviously our legal team and so that's kind of what took us to to November 17." If that doesn't sound like a secret coup, I don't know what does. Like, yes, it is their job to hire and fire the CEO so it's not r…

Employees are quite often given no notice of firing or layoff, despite it being discussed by managers or executives ahead of time without the employee present.

Is a Board firing the CEO typically conducted differently?

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#162

Post by adamtaylor_13 »

mateus1 wrote: post #149
zooq_ai wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sam Altman made openAI possible. A true CEO like Satya knows without Sam, the rate of progress at OpenAI will be determined by decels like Helen/Jan aka ZERO. It's a disaster for product development, especially when you have openly invited Google to dance. I know HN leans engineering/safety/reliability/labor/pedantic (like chasing the absolute truth), but at the end of the day, company scales from the likes of Jobs/M…

This is the literal definition of a slippery slope. Letting billionaires, who already wield extreme power, break laws and skirt regulations is the opposite of a free market.

Where do you get this idea that we have a free market? Money begets money, and as the commenter above pointed out, those who have money know how to make it and know that it's the Musk/Zuck/Altmans of the world who get it done.

We don't necessarily have to like it to acknowledge it's very much reality.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#163

Post by dang »

qp11 wrote: post #59
snowwrestler wrote: post #52

Kind of ironic that people are jumping in here to defend Sam Altman on the message board of Y Combinator, which also fired him from an executive leadership role for similar reasons.

[flagged]

Please avoid swipes like "these people", as well as bogus generalizations about the community generally. Since you're commenting here, you're as much "these people" as anyone else is.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#164

Post by imperfect_light »

zooq_ai wrote: post #114
bmitc wrote: post #86

What is still bizarre is how the board brought him back. I just don't understand that from any angle. It is very clear that he lied and schemed. So why was there any issue? He had no power once fired. If another company wants to hire him, fine. If he wants to make platitudes on Twitter, who cares? Employees threatened to leave? Let them. I imagine many of them wouldn't, and if they did, you could just rehire and find…

Sam Altman made openAI possible. A true CEO like Satya knows without Sam, the rate of progress at OpenAI will be determined by decels like Helen/Jan aka ZERO. It's a disaster for product development, especially when you have openly invited Google to dance. I know HN leans engineering/safety/reliability/labor/pedantic (like chasing the absolute truth), but at the end of the day, company scales from the likes of Jobs/M…

This isn't lying about product philosophy, lying about your financial stake in an OpenAI VC group would be grounds for dismissal from any company.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#165

Post by jjulius »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #157
pdonis wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you tell them so, in a meeting with all board members present, and argue your position in good faith. You don't lie to them. You certainly don't scheme behind the back of a board member you don't agree with to try to get them fired.

And if you realize there's no way to convince them that they are wrong? But it's a matter of survival of the entire universe?

>But it's a matter of survival of the entire universe?

Surely you jest.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#166

Post by mewpmewp2 »

jjulius wrote: post #165
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you realize there's no way to convince them that they are wrong? But it's a matter of survival of the entire universe?

>But it's a matter of survival of the entire universe? Surely you jest.

What's the alternative? Mocha?

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#167

Post by imperfect_light »

stale2002 wrote: post #150
bmitc wrote: post #86

What is still bizarre is how the board brought him back. I just don't understand that from any angle. It is very clear that he lied and schemed. So why was there any issue? He had no power once fired. If another company wants to hire him, fine. If he wants to make platitudes on Twitter, who cares? Employees threatened to leave? Let them. I imagine many of them wouldn't, and if they did, you could just rehire and find…

Employees are not replacable like that. Almost the entire company was threatening to quit. If it was possible to simply replace all of openAI, then you could just do that now, as an outside party. So the boards choice was to either bring back Sam or watch the entire company go under.

The board should have been transparent about the dishonesty, especially around financial stakes, and I suspect the OpenAI employees and MSFT would have reacted differently.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#168

Post by bayareabadboy »

jameshart wrote: post #154
bayareabadboy wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re absolutely right we shouldn’t celebrate that a maniac hasn’t engulfed Europe in war since 1945. This is an incredible feat for anyone with an elementary understanding of history. We’re at the longest period of time that a unified Germany hasn’t started a war. Obviously there are still authoritarians seeking control and starting wars, but they tend not to exist where free markets do. Apologies if that’s inconve…

You… have heard of Ukraine haven’t you?

Putin, a former officer in the KGB, is a product of the planned Soviet economy.

Read red state by bill browder, the Russian economy was never a free market even after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#169

Post by drewbug01 »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #140
drewbug01 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying to the board, if true, is radically unethical. If you equate lying with “outsmarting,” that’s rather concerning.

What if you realize that the board is wrong?

> What if you realize that the board is wrong?

It is wise to be exceedingly cautious when deploying ends-justifies-the-means logic. Most of the time, history doesn’t remember those who employ it too fondly.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#170

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

gtirloni wrote: post #26
proc0 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol true and it got me thinking maybe AGI is what will finally align humanity together, whether its because it smart enough to fix the problem or dangerous enough it will require everyone's cooperation to stop it.

> it will require everyone's cooperation to stop it Does this mythological AGI live in datacenters that we can shutdown or in some 5th dimension out of reach to us?

Let’s say it lives in data centers.

But it has figured out how to infect every machine in the datacenter and spread to other data centers.

The only way to shut it down would be to shut down every datacenter in the entire world.

Given the dire consequences of that, would people actually do that?

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