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WP21

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Re: WP21

#161

Post by k3vinw »

donatj wrote: post #138
askonomm wrote: post #66

I just wish WordPress actually adhered to development standards, not actively tried to break them. Using globals everywhere and encouraging spaghetti code with its classic themes, and with its new themes it evidently learned nothing and is encouraging JSON inside HTML comments which obviously has no editor support, is very prone to errors, besides being just plain stupid (like seriously, some senior engineers I assum…

I am by no means a Wordpress expert, but I have had to deal with moving clients sites from time to time and I have vivid memories of hardcoded absolute file system paths in the database embedded in serialized PHP that broke when trying to move their installation to a new server with mildly different pathing.

If I recall correctly, it was double the fun when it points to the original copy of your other wp install while it’s still running.

Re: WP21

#162

Post by k3vinw »

My first computer software related job was creating Wordpress powered web sites from photoshop documents. Thank you to the creators for making that possible!

Re: WP21

#163

Post by selfmodruntime »

addandsubtract wrote: post #91
selfmodruntime wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They definitely are and I would bet money it's China.

China has laws against loading content from third parties without consent? Sounds more like an EU thing.

China has laws against graphic displays of blood. I could not find a European country that does.

Re: WP21

#164

Post by nikolay »

rafark wrote: post #115
nikolay wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they overprice and they forget people use multiple plugins, so I use a third-party service that leverages GPL to offer most premium themes and plugins for a low annual fee.

So basically you just want the functionality without paying for it. > they overprice and they forget people use multiple plugins People who complain about the prices also forget that a lot of these plugins take months or years to develop. You’re (we’ll not you since you made it clear you don’t pay the devs) literally getting thousands of man hours for like 60 bucks per year.

I never said that - they need to price adequately. 99% of the plugins are just overpriced junk that's not worth even 1% of what they ask for it.

Re: WP21

#165

Post by photomatt »

askonomm wrote: post #145
Tijdreiziger wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their mantra of ‘never break backwards compatibility’ is a double-edged sword. It makes them extremely friendly to non-technical users, which I think is the majority of their userbase. However, it makes it impossible for them to change technical decisions made in the past.

That would be fine, imo. But seeing as their new development efforts (Block/Gutenberg themes) are also making horrible decisions when they no longer have to (such as putting templating markup inside of HTML comments as JSON)[1] E.g: I've lost any faith I had in their core development teams competence. I would understand if development choices made 20 years ago weren't all that great by todays standards, and never bre…

You've got some pretty compelling arguments for why WordPress shouldn't work, it's I think even more interesting to figure out why it has. Especially on a site like HN, which has "terrible" UI and code, it even still uses single-pixel spacers! :)

Re: WP21

#166

Post by photomatt »

noduerme wrote: post #84
askonomm wrote: post #66

I just wish WordPress actually adhered to development standards, not actively tried to break them. Using globals everywhere and encouraging spaghetti code with its classic themes, and with its new themes it evidently learned nothing and is encouraging JSON inside HTML comments which obviously has no editor support, is very prone to errors, besides being just plain stupid (like seriously, some senior engineers I assum…

Kill the freelancer? I'm a freelancer and my favorite thing to tell cheap potential clients for the past 15 years is do their site with Wordpress and to go find a Wordpress "expert". It exists for the broke and the cheap who are under the illusion that they need a simple website, which itself is a dead letter.

It's too bad you didn't go into using WordPress for higher-end sites. We're seeing huge growth on the enterprise side, which Automattic calls VIP, including taking significant share from Sitecore, Drupal, Magento, Adobe, and many others in sites with budgets in the seven-figures and beyond.

I would say the main gating factor is the number of agencies and developers who can handle bigger clients including governments.

Re: WP21

#167

Post by photomatt »

donatj wrote: post #138
askonomm wrote: post #66

I just wish WordPress actually adhered to development standards, not actively tried to break them. Using globals everywhere and encouraging spaghetti code with its classic themes, and with its new themes it evidently learned nothing and is encouraging JSON inside HTML comments which obviously has no editor support, is very prone to errors, besides being just plain stupid (like seriously, some senior engineers I assum…

I am by no means a Wordpress expert, but I have had to deal with moving clients sites from time to time and I have vivid memories of hardcoded absolute file system paths in the database embedded in serialized PHP that broke when trying to move their installation to a new server with mildly different pathing.

Migration is horrible right now, making it better is part of the Data Liberation focus this year.

Re: WP21

#168

Post by photomatt »

kunley wrote: post #121
rrreese wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Quick judgments I think most peoples judgments have been formed over 21 years. WordPress initially gained a reputation for being a fast and easy way to setup a website, then gained a reputation for being a security nightmare. Maybe its not anymore but people are right to be sceptical. I sure do see a lot of CVEs in the weekly update I check - maybe they're all low risk, or relate to rarely used plugins.

I think the root of bad reputation was due to various plugins and their usage pattern: lots of non-tech users heard that they can use plugins X Y Z for fun and profit, so they started to use them, but no one told them that managing dependencies requires some skill or at least discipline; that the fact some 3rd party pluggable software exists doesn't automatically mean it's good, viable, maintainable and safe; and tha…

We've expanded our HackerOne and other security apparatus to cover the top 100 plugins directly and do our best to work with every plugin in the directory, including many contributions from web hosts who of course want their sites to be secure. The update system has become very robust, and all the top hosts also protect their sites at the network layer so many CVEs are blocked even if the code hasn't been updated yet.

Re: WP21

#169

Post by photomatt »

JeanMarcS wrote: post #109
ssalat wrote: post #25

Quick judgments and strong opinions have unfortunately become part of the community. Having spent the last 2-3 months working excessively on WordPress development, I would like to say a word about the excellent isolation of code with blocks ("Gutenberg"). As standalone plugins or in combination with Advanced Custom Fields, these allow for perfect, modular websites and development flows (design system), where even the…

WordPress is a great blogging CMS. The fact that people use it for something else is what create strong opinions. Example : woo commerce. Products ? In the WP_POST db. Orders ? In the WP_POST db. And in every post about WP it says that using WP_POST for storing your data is good practice. Well I don't think it is (but it's only my opinion. A strong one). And the problem is that a LOT of plugins and themes are like th…

This was a bit of a reaction to other CMSes that were creating dozens or hundreds of tables, which creates a different set of problems for things like search or overly complex joins.

Re: WP21

#170

Post by throw5345346 »

throw5345346 wrote: post #160
joshbetz wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take, for example, the curious case of the lack of post cloning The percentage of users that need this functionality is exceptionally low. If WordPress bundled every feature that some percentage of users could ever need, we'd have the opposite problem. The GUI would be an endless mishmash of features that most people don't need. > There's a 99% chance that site is running WordPress and has dozens of plugins and got…

> The percentage of users that need this functionality is exceptionally low. I am not sure about this -- I do know users who rely on post-cloning to update their sites. And I don't think it's unreasonable that this functionality should be fore. But what I would say is, it's not a slam-dunk as a piece of generalised functionality, though it might be possible to implement it fairly completely for the core post types. I…

> should be fore

= should be in core.

Goodness knows how that typo happened.

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