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Firefox search update

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Firefox search update

#161

Post by [deleted] »

lxgr wrote: post #137
bloopernova wrote: post #62

I don't want to be given a "browsing experience". I don't want to be treated as a product, sold to data brokers without my knowledge. My browsing experience is already tailored to me by my own actions. I guess I'll be migrating to LibreWolf.

How does having a browsing experience imply being a product? Is it possible to use Firefox without having a browsing experience? It is a web browser! Seems like Mozilla really is fighting a losing battle: Whenever they as much as think about doing 1% of the monitoring that their competitors do (often for user research to guide and focus their development efforts; unclear if that's what's happening here though), they…

[deleted]

Re: Firefox search update

#162

Post by [deleted] »

lxgr wrote: post #146
kjkjadksj wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The base they alienate just wants a web browser. You don’t need to iterate forever on a good tool that does the job. Software can be feature complete. Anyone wishing for a complete overhaul update for something like cp? Absolutely not, people want tools that work the same for years.

But a browser is never "done", for better or worse, nor are user expectations static. Stopping to iterate on a web browser is like stopping to iterate on an operating system: It'll go well for a while (and users even might love you for it for a year or two, since you can focus your effort on fixing bugs and not introduce new ones with new features), and then you'll slowly but steadily lose users to other browser that…

[deleted]

Re: Firefox search update

#163

Post by wewxjfq »

Ennea wrote: post #42
stronglikedan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if you'll have to remember to do this after each update, like you have to do for most of Chrome's unwanted and unwelcomed features.

Probably not. These settings have been around for a long time already anyway, and they never get overwritten once set, at least in my experience.

When you haven't used Firefox for a while it shows a prompt that tricks you into resetting your profile.

Re: Firefox search update

#165

Post by camkego »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #147
not2b wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antitrust actions in the US and EU may force Google to cut off those payments (to Mozilla and Apple), and if that happens, Firefox needs to survive somehow.

Somehow open source browsers still get made without a $600 million “rich uncle.” Mozilla is pretty bloated. This can buy like 1200 good engineers. People make browsers with a couple people sometimes.

It’s possible to repackage Chromium with a couple people. It’s not possible to build a browser from the ground up with a couple people.

Re: Firefox search update

#166

Post by krono »

atomicfiredoll wrote: post #7

Just a shortcut for anybody trying to find it. "Remember, you can always opt out of sending any technical or usage data to Firefox. Here’s a step-by-step guide [0] on how to adjust your settings." --- 1. Click the [hamburger menu button] and select Settings. 2. Select the Privacy & Security panel. 3. Scroll down to the Firefox Data Collection and Use section. 4. Check or uncheck the box next to Allow Firefox to send…

That still doesn't disable all telemetry from being sent. There's a whole slue of settings that you need to change in about:config and then there's still no guarantee.

Even if you follow those steps you listed there and uncheck all those boxes you're shown in the standard settings pages, then Firefox will just continue to send out 'pings' when you interact with certain elements in the browser interface. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Mozilla is like one of those politicians that just won't stop yapping about traditional conservative family values, who is later found to have several extramarital children and numerous affairs with same-sex partners themselves.

Re: Firefox search update

#167

Post by [deleted] »

bloopernova wrote: post #62

I don't want to be given a "browsing experience". I don't want to be treated as a product, sold to data brokers without my knowledge. My browsing experience is already tailored to me by my own actions. I guess I'll be migrating to LibreWolf.

[deleted]

Re: Firefox search update

#168

Post by JeremyNT »

aquova wrote: post #129
romanows wrote: post #11

Seems like this is in support of "Firefox Suggest", which seems to show sponsored links. I really don't like advertising so I really don't like going down that road. Can't they just take Google's yearly $600,000,000 payment and build the best browser "for the user" while also addressing technical debt and organizational issues so it can continue as an open source project if/when the money ever dries up?

I constantly see this take and I'm afraid I don't agree with it. Firefox is continuing to lose market share, and I think it's less anything they're doing and due simply to the fact that Google is a household name while Mozilla is not. When the user is already using a Google phone, email, search, maps, drive, and document editor, it follows to also use their browser. Simply being a solid browser isn't enough to motiva…

I agree with this take.

It's not like the power users who currently use Firefox and yet dislike this stuff are going to switch away from Firefox, since there's nothing to switch to other than Chrome, which is clearly worse.

Personal anecdote, I didn't like Pocket being added to Firefox, but eventually I did start using it - only because it came from Mozilla. And I currently pay Mozilla money for Relay (along with VPN), which are examples of them expanding outside of their core browser features.

Re: Firefox search update

#169

Post by xemdetia »

aquova wrote: post #129
romanows wrote: post #11

Seems like this is in support of "Firefox Suggest", which seems to show sponsored links. I really don't like advertising so I really don't like going down that road. Can't they just take Google's yearly $600,000,000 payment and build the best browser "for the user" while also addressing technical debt and organizational issues so it can continue as an open source project if/when the money ever dries up?

I constantly see this take and I'm afraid I don't agree with it. Firefox is continuing to lose market share, and I think it's less anything they're doing and due simply to the fact that Google is a household name while Mozilla is not. When the user is already using a Google phone, email, search, maps, drive, and document editor, it follows to also use their browser. Simply being a solid browser isn't enough to motiva…

What I think I am waiting for from Mozilla is instead of this enrich the suggest experience just go full Yahoo like Microsoft did with Microsoft start. Make an organic 'good' home page, and let people who want to not use it switch it out and capture interest that way. Make links people can share so you can convince them to try Mozilla. You have to FIND Mozilla nowadays, and in comparison I look at what Opera has been doing lately in actively helping people find them. I am at least seeing a path for Opera to grow more than Firefox right now.

Re: Firefox search update

#170

Post by SkyMarshal »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #142
lxgr wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does having a browsing experience imply being a product? Is it possible to use Firefox without having a browsing experience? It is a web browser! Seems like Mozilla really is fighting a losing battle: Whenever they as much as think about doing 1% of the monitoring that their competitors do (often for user research to guide and focus their development efforts; unclear if that's what's happening here though), they…

The base they alienate just wants a web browser. You don’t need to iterate forever on a good tool that does the job. Software can be feature complete. Anyone wishing for a complete overhaul update for something like cp? Absolutely not, people want tools that work the same for years.

As long as web standards keep evolving you can never stop iterating on browsers. And with Google Chrome pushing some of those web standards additions, Firefox has to keep up or die.

Also, it is possible to continue iteratively improving a complex piece of software like a browser, beyond just the web standards race. Security, privacy, performance, and reliability/bugs/code correctness are areas where new computer science is constantly coming down the pipe and worth integrating. And maybe other things like AI or features for AR/VR systems, though it's more debatable whether those belong in general purpose browsers.

Browsers aren't Unix utilities that should do one thing and just one thing and thus can theoretically reach a state of "done". But even there it's not always a certainty. For example, "sudo" being superseded by a simpler more secure "doas", and then more recently by SystemD "run0". Even simple utilities continue to evolve.

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