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New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

discover.lanl.gov

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Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#161

Post by dyauspitr »

jerpint wrote: post #47
adastra22 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mars had 3/4 billion more years to develop, compared with the Earth. Mars formed first, and cooled first due to its smaller size. One of the outstanding problems in astrobiology I mention is that the Earth was inhospitable until 3.8Gya, and the oldest fossils of presumably DNA based life (since it matches existing life we can study) was 3.7Gya. Mars was hospitable ~4.5Gya. So either life emerged IMMEDIATELY on Earth…

How does earth get seeded?

Volcanic eruptions throwing rocks into space. A large impact throwing a huge number of rocks into space.

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#162

Post by c22 »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #8
bsima wrote: post #2

yay, likelihood that we are martians just went up a few basis points

Or, why aren't Martians from Earth. As much as I like the idea conceptually for movies. That life on Earth came from Mars still doesn't explain how life started on Mars. It just moves the location, the mechanism is still tbd.

If we can demonstrate that life moved from Mars to Earth then the most likely explanation for life on Mars is that it also got there from somewhere else.

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#163

Post by ffhhj »

wvbdmp wrote: post #107
walterbell wrote: post #65

Kurd Lasswitz wrote "Two Planets" in 1897, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39598983 > Lasswitz's Martians differ little from man physically, but ethically, intellectually, scientifically, and socially they are the prototype of the ideal human being. They seek to educate man, asking in return only air and energy to supplement the diminished supplies in their own, older world. The story revolves around a group of…

Wernher von Braun himself also wrote probably the first serious treatise on human missions to mars as well as a science fiction novel on the topic in 1948. Apparently the original German novel remains unpublished, but there is an English translation available. It’s set in 1980. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mars_Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mars:_A_Technical_Tale Check out the second link’s secti…

"Elon Gates to reach the stars"

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#164

Post by iamthirsty »

ceejayoz wrote: post #149
iamthirsty wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hundreds of tons of rock like this from Mars land every year. 277 total Martian meteorites — with the largest weighing 14.5 kg — is not hundreds of tons yearly.

That's how many have been conclusively classified as Martian out of "the 72,000 meteorites [total] that have been classified". ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_meteorite ) That's obviously not the actual total that have ever made it here. https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/meteors-meteorites/fac... > Scientists estimate that about 48.5 tons (44,000 kilograms) of meteoritic material falls on Earth each day.…

While I recognize your logic, and even mostly agree, the point still stands that it cannot be conclusively and definitively said (as least as far as we've been alive/can tell) that hundreds of tons of Martian meteorites fall to Earth every year. Or even tons at all.

Tons of meteorites in general, sure — but not from Mars.

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#165

Post by ceejayoz »

iamthirsty wrote: post #164
ceejayoz wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how many have been conclusively classified as Martian out of "the 72,000 meteorites [total] that have been classified". ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_meteorite ) That's obviously not the actual total that have ever made it here. https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/meteors-meteorites/fac... > Scientists estimate that about 48.5 tons (44,000 kilograms) of meteoritic material falls on Earth each day.…

While I recognize your logic, and even mostly agree, the point still stands that it cannot be conclusively and definitively said (as least as far as we've been alive/can tell) that hundreds of tons of Martian meteorites fall to Earth every year . Or even tons at all. Tons of meteorites in general, sure — but not from Mars.

It is likely given these numbers at least some tons of Martian rock land here annually, which makes the seeding of life concept feasible. I'm on board with "not hundreds of tons", but it's a lot closer estimate than 277 ever.

(48.5 * 365) * (277 / 72,000) = 68 tons per year as an extremely speculative estimate here, ignoring entirely probable variances in what hits us (much of which is sand-grain sized) versus what we identify... and again, any estimate here we have to multiply by a few billion years.

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#166

Post by throw4847285 »

Sometimes I wonder if Sci-fi has done more harm than good. It provides conclusions that people so badly want to prove true that they will look for any evidence, however meager, to bolster their arguments. Maybe there was life on Mars, but the main motivation to believe that right now is that many people have read about it in fantasy books. Much more devastatingly, Sci-fi has driven what technology people develop, and often it has led to technology that has made the world worse.

Meanwhile, those stories about martians are all metaphors. But people can't distinguish the symbol from the symbolized.

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#167

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

codedokode wrote: post #153
iamflimflam1 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly worth also including just how controversial Wernher von Braun is. Von Braun is a highly controversial figure widely seen as escaping justice for his Nazi war crimes due to the Americans' desire to beat the Soviets in the Cold War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

Does this mean that Americans helped a criminal to escape justice?

[dead]

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#168

Post by hgs3 »

pjmlp wrote: post #151
markus_zhang wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the paradise? And Adam's apple might not be an apple, but some important electronic devices that Adam accidentally broke? OK I know it sounds crazy...but it's fun to link legends with science.

Could lead to an interesting plot.

For a time the "Adam and Eve" twist ending was actually overused in many science fiction stories so much so that it is now pejoratively discussed in books on writing [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_God_story

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#169

Post by dylan604 »

throw4847285 wrote: post #166

Sometimes I wonder if Sci-fi has done more harm than good. It provides conclusions that people so badly want to prove true that they will look for any evidence, however meager, to bolster their arguments. Maybe there was life on Mars, but the main motivation to believe that right now is that many people have read about it in fantasy books. Much more devastatingly, Sci-fi has driven what technology people develop, and…

I don't blame scifi, after all it is just fiction. However, I think the blame could go to poor education and being able to know the difference.

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#170

Post by dylan604 »

walterbell wrote: post #65

Kurd Lasswitz wrote "Two Planets" in 1897, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39598983 > Lasswitz's Martians differ little from man physically, but ethically, intellectually, scientifically, and socially they are the prototype of the ideal human being. They seek to educate man, asking in return only air and energy to supplement the diminished supplies in their own, older world. The story revolves around a group of…

> "They are already here among us – they just call themselves Hungarians."

Do Germans also have jokes like "how many Hungarians does it take to screw in a light bulb"?

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