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Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

breakingdefense.com

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Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#161

Post by edgyquant »

anyfactor wrote: post #56
torginus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem in the US defense industry is, that since the end of the cold war, defense companies have consolidated into just 5 huge conglomerates and the lack of competition wasn't great for the pace of innovation, affordability or timely development. And the Cold War ended more than three decades ago, about the time we went from piston aircraft to the teen series jets making up the bulk of US inventory even today. I…

Thank you very much. I feel like engineering innovation has been concentrated on technology and not in defense engineering at all. Immigrants have helped a lot in building the tech sector's innovation in the last half of the century. But the defense industry often requires naturalized citizens to work on these projects. I think there is a difference between immigrants coming to North America to work and eventually se…

It’s wrong and, frankly racist, to imply Americans are incapable of innovation. Immigrants are used to suppress wages, that innovation you describe is a key aspect of American culture and can be replicated in defense by Americans. One big problem is that the politics of the most innovative areas has been pretty anti-defense tech until very recently

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#162

Post by dralley »

nbzso wrote: post #92

The problem you have, dear Americans is called MIC. Just quoting one of your presidents: >“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.” So many wars for profit. History knows best that there is no free lunch. But I suppose…

The counteroffensive failed because of mines, mines, mines and more mines and a woefully insufficient quantity of demining equipment.

Yet, even that "failure" (I do agree that it failed) was still more successful than Russia's post-summer-2022 offensives.

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#163

Post by some_random »

nikolay wrote: post #65

I like Anduril, but it seems that their stuff is overcomplicated and expensive compared to what we see on the battlefield in Ukraine where hundreds of drones are downed daily. An unmanned fighter jet is a whole different ball game for them.

It's the difference between peacetime preparation and wartime expediency. If the Ukrainians were able to spend the time and money to move the drone supply chain home, improve sensors, implement electronic warfare workarounds, etc they absolutely would. But right now there are Ukrainians losing hands disassembling conventional warheads to mount on FPV drones because they are needed right now on the front in the fight for the nation.

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#164

Post by ethbr1 »

Animats wrote: post #68

It's impressive how much hardware they've been able to develop. Their "Fury", which they acquired from Blue Force, is "a single engine business jet with no cabin." It was originally intended as a target drone, something for fighter pilots to practice against. Anduril repurposed it as an autonomous weapons system. They do mean autonomous. Their slogan is "Autonomy for Every Mission". We're seeing the future of warfare…

> future of warfare

Color me skeptical. It feels like what we're seeing now is a local optimum: new systems (drones) designed to asymmetrically win ($) against legacy systems (mechanized vehicles) designed for very different goals.

We'll see what things look like once the post-drone evolution cycle has turned on the armored side.

That said, I do think the Marines are right, in that distributed agility/logistics from temporary and frequently relocated basing is going to be the new normal.

Russia doesn't have particularly advanced long range fires and Ukrainian inventory is limited.

But conflict against China or the US would be dominated by cruise or ballistic missile strikes against any concentrated, persistent target.

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#165

Post by some_random »

Garvi wrote: post #115

It's hard to believe, but the times of "If I won't do it, someone else will." are back and it seems people forgot the lesson. It is my honest opinion that anyone who works on such weapons is a monster. 3 years ago this topic would be full of people protesting this. Pointing out the inhumanity, the potential for abuse, the hypocrisy, the dangers of desensitizing war. Censorship changed the game entirely.

It wasn't censorship, it was the Invasion of Ukraine that woke up most of your fellow pacifists. They saw civilians being butchered in a pointless, egotistical invasion of a peaceful country. They saw protests in Russia being brutally and quickly crushed. So they realized that there are in fact threats in the world that aren't going to be defeated through self sacrifice and empathetic dialogue and instead needs to be subdued with firepower.

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#166

Post by ethbr1 »

relaxing wrote: post #126
rapsey wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pretty sure the US gov. is absolutely eager to create more competition of the space. The DOD actually is the reason the defense companies consolidated. They literally told them to do it. I think they explained it in the Acquired episode on Lockheed Martin from a year ago.

That seems misleading. The DOD was the reason inasmuch as the budget to pay contractors was slashed, and the alternative was letting the smaller companies go out of business and losing the knowledge and manufacturing capabilities altogether.

Post-USSR, the DoD literally met with defense companies and told them that (a) there was going to be less money so (b) they needed to consolidate to survive.

It was pretty explicit.

That said, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.

Everyone forgets that system complexity increases generation by generation: an F-35 is not an F-111 is not an F-86 is not a P-51.

The unconsolidated, smaller defense companies of yore likely couldn't have managed a project of F-35 A+B+C complexity.

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#167

Post by epolanski »

ethbr1 wrote: post #164
Animats wrote: post #68

It's impressive how much hardware they've been able to develop. Their "Fury", which they acquired from Blue Force, is "a single engine business jet with no cabin." It was originally intended as a target drone, something for fighter pilots to practice against. Anduril repurposed it as an autonomous weapons system. They do mean autonomous. Their slogan is "Autonomy for Every Mission". We're seeing the future of warfare…

> future of warfare Color me skeptical. It feels like what we're seeing now is a local optimum: new systems (drones) designed to asymmetrically win ($) against legacy systems (mechanized vehicles) designed for very different goals. We'll see what things look like once the post-drone evolution cycle has turned on the armored side. That said, I do think the Marines are right, in that distributed agility/logistics from…

As always war is a rock paper scissor.

As we have seen, the russians have been very good at electronic warfare and have increased their capabilities in fighting and jamming drones from sensible distance.

This doesn't change what a mess "modern" war is when both sides have relatively good equipment and none can claim air superiority: symmetrical war of attrition.

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#168

Post by merman »

ajmurmann wrote: post #153
merman wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

let’s all be diplomats instead. That will save our allies!

Let's also focus on telling our allies to always restrain themselves when fighting their enemies.

Yes, in a historic war of civilization versus the opposite, against a foe that uses your humanity as a weakness, it becomes very confusing who is right and who is wrong.

Re: Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unmanned fighter jets

#170

Post by ethbr1 »

anonymousDan wrote: post #113
basil-rash wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also went to a/the top CS school. When I graduated I would have never considered working at a defense company. Now, after bouncing around big tech and startups for a few years, I am a few days away from accepting a position at one. What changed? Appreciation for how entirely insignificant to downright harmful the rest of the industry is, perhaps. I made changes that impacted tens of millions of users in... no signi…

That 'cut out the middleman' angle always makes me chuckle. I remember seeing an ad on the tube for Made.com offering to cut out the middleman in furniture purchasing - what are you if not a middleman I thought!

Cut out the middle and you're just dealing with The Man.
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