The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists • Hacker News Board

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#161

Post by cyanydeez » Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 8:45 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #21

luisgvv wrote: post #7

I began as a junior dev and climbed up the ranks til the point where I became the SME in some areas of the product. Got laid off because sales goals were not met while they retained people which I think were incompetent in their work. Even some guys which I think were better and more critical to the projects were dumped. I'm not climbing that ladder by being proactive and "pragmatic" again... Call me a paycheck steal…

I’ll be you ten bucks they got rid of people who bring up bad news and kept the yes-men. A company that doesn’t know what’s broken is doomed to mediocrity. But some people want to play music while the ship sinks. So they arrange for the most pleasant rest of the voyage they can, instead of saving as many people as they can.

Peoplw conceptualize businesses likr some super organism that should try to maximize the quality of its products.

In reality, it most.often maximizes its executives lives while minimizing all other forms of frictions.

Everyone whose worked with small businesses will rscognize this pattern easily. Uts only when you get a few e?tra executives that the equation itself gets comolicated, but its still typically about maximizing the executives livlihood.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#162

Post by aubanel » Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 8:55 PM UTC

Putting "cut-throat bureaucrats" in the "do not care for impact" side of the axis seems unnatural to me: I think these people do care for impact, and that's why they are so decided about imposing their ways. But their definition of impact is "doing things the right way", which corrupts their want for improvement into a pile of processes.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#163

Post by bena » Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 8:59 PM UTC

all2 wrote: post #159

hinkley wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was probably an HSP, which by some estimates is 15% of the population. HSP plus high IQ makes up a lot of people you would label “scary smart”.

What is "HSP"?

"Highly sensitive person". Basically hypervigilant

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#164

Post by gopher_space » Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 9:16 PM UTC

rybosworld wrote: post #137

gopher_space wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a pretty common attitude. That is, "I'm able to pick better workplaces than you are". It's more about not applying to certain jobs, or cancelling the process after the first red flag. > You cannot with any certainty tell what a work environment is like in the interview stage. Sure I can. But I might have been at it for a decade or two longer than you have. Folks on HN talk about the warning signs and red fl…

Guessing with a higher accuracy is still guessing.

If I'm rolling the dice then we've moved from d00 to d20 and saved a ton of time. Here are a few general examples of things I'll look at:

- Can I tell what the actual point of the job is from the job description? Does it describe what their services are in service to?

- How many non-technical, non-domain experts will I speak with before I'm talking engineer to engineer?

- How jazzed are the interviewers about speaking with me, in the moment? Are they interested in the details of earlier projects? Are they curious about me, or just running down a list of questions?

- Do they use leetcode or similar? There are a lot of really good reasons for a company to use leetcode in their hiring process, but none of those reasons are particularly good for me, as an employee.

- Do their interview questions make sense, given their context? E.g are they quizzing me on recursion from an environment where recursion wouldn't be a particularly great idea?

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#165

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 9:23 PM UTC

imzadi wrote: post #65

I don't know if this is related, but growing up there were certain values instilled in me that went something like "don't toot your own horn," "it's better to be seen and not heard," "keep your head down," etc. The main gist being that I should just do my job quietly, competently, and stay out of the way. In practice, this resulted in me being effectively invisible to management, even when I was out-performing everyo…

[deleted]

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#166

Post by keybored » Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 9:23 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #16

I don’t think I can agree that 75% of the workforce falls into one quadrant. Particularly this one. If I’m very lucky the semi space contains 60% of my coworkers, if I’m unlucky (or arrive after the writing is on the wall) it’s more like 1/3. I suspect part of the confusion is that there are some people with enough political acumen to appear like frustrated agents of change without actually having the drive or skill…

TFA said

> The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists.

Nothing about brilliant there. Just skilled and pragmatic.

You’re trying to cool head/cold shower the idea but you’re just substituing the narrative for HN’s favorite pastime of talking about high IQ/brilliance for the sake of it.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#167

Post by beeboobaa3 » Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 9:33 PM UTC

rybosworld wrote: post #135

beeboobaa3 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, how did you go from > wisely chooses his employers to not end-up in such environments to > implies you have control over the other people that work at the company instead of just assuming they'll just leave?

Let me ask this: Do you agree that a work environment/culture is defined by the people who are a part of it? Do you think that during the interview stage, an employer can characterize the work environment as different than it is in reality? If you say yes to both of these, then I don't understand the disconnect. Maybe I can summarize another way: - It's not possible to really know what a work environment is like unti…

Do you think you can't choose a different place of employment after saying "yes" to one? Do you think you're stuck there forever? Do you not realize you can choose a different employer, even after you already started working there?

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#168

Post by icedchai » Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 9:40 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #112

WalterBright wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aren't we all (normal and decent people) doing this already? I've known many such in my career. They weren't fooling anybody. Everybody knew who they were. When they'd get laid off or were passed over for a raise they were always baffled and outraged.

I think this highly depends on the manager. Some know (Manager A), and either work to correct it, or get their ducks in a row to fire them. Plenty of managers, though, (Manager B) have no idea what a reasonable amount of work output is, and can be easily convinced that what took 1-2 hours to do constituted an entire 40 hour week. You get some developer who's good at "managing upward" and they'll bullshit/charm and wa…

Yep. I've seen it happen. If you have too many clueless people at the top, the tail will wag the dog, so to speak. The slacker's peers often don't care as long as the slacking doesn't cause more work them. It's a "don't ask, don't tell" situation all around.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#169

Post by icedchai » Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 9:43 PM UTC

chrisgd wrote: post #99

It’s crazy we still hire so slowly and fire so quickly when it should be the exact opposite.

Many companies are afraid of being sued or "ruining their reputation" through too many firings. Instead, they waste much more on wasted salaries and ruin their reputation internally by keeping useless people around.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#170

Post by robocat » Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 9:49 PM UTC

chinchilla2020 wrote: post #155

toomuchtodo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you have a clear exit plan outside scaling the so-called ladder Exit plan is FIRE. Everything else is circus and performance art. Others can play status games, I prefer wealth games: wealth is options and options are freedom. Pragmatic, smart, skilled people are extracted from unless lucky and in a position to see outsized returns from their effort. Better to know what enough is, collect enough freedom coins, an…

I had a bit of an epiphany when I read this comment since you hit the nail on the head so succinctly. Wealth is the only true path that gives you options. All other paths are dependent on income. There really is no other exit plan except financial security. Every other plan is just putting you into the walls a new rat maze.

True wealth has a lot of non-financial measures.

Non-financial goals are way way harder to achieve than FIRE: the biggest issue is selecting your non-financial goals. Money is a simple goal and it isn't impossible to achieve - then what?

Deciding that money should be your primary focus overoptimises for financial wealth against non-financial wealth.

For example, life satisfaction: do you know people doing jobs they love? People that would continue their calling even if it didn't pay them? Try to understand their wealth even if they don't have the financial freedom a successful business can give you. The main problem is most of those jobs are not in businesses and it is hard to understand things we haven't experienced. Jobs are a very poor example but you get the idea.

I've retired early: for me personally, financial wealth is not enough.

One limited resource that we are approximately all given the same amount of is time - you get fifty years between 20 and 70 to use the best you can. I think most people don't use their limited resource very well (even those that optimise their time well seem to use it poorly on bad meta-goals).