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Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

theguardian.com

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Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#161

Post by boomboomsubban »

andrewla wrote: post #141
handity wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe your hope that he will face anything like a fair trial in the US is misplaced. The conviction the US seeks under the Espionage Act is as good as automatic. There are books and numerous articles covering in minute detail the extraordinary nature of his persecution, detailing the numerous perversions of justice involved.

> The conviction the US seeks under the Espionage Act is as good as automatic I find this assessment to be unsupported. Name a single journalist successfully prosecuted under the Espionage Act. If you have to go back to the 1920s to find an example, then I think I've made my point. Ellsberg was the only journalist in modern times to even be charged under it, and his charges were dismissed.

>Ellsberg was the only journalist in modern times to even be charged under it, and his charges were dismissed..

His charges were dismissed after the Judge refused to allow him to present a defense. And they were dismissed because the FBI had illegally wiretapped him, not because of anything to do with the case itself.

It's already come out that Assange was constantly wiretapped throughout his stay at the Ecuadorian embassy, including during meetings with his lawyer. Do you think the US would be pushing extradition if they thought a judge would dismiss the case based on that?

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#162

Post by andrewla »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #154
andrewla wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The conviction the US seeks under the Espionage Act is as good as automatic I find this assessment to be unsupported. Name a single journalist successfully prosecuted under the Espionage Act. If you have to go back to the 1920s to find an example, then I think I've made my point. Ellsberg was the only journalist in modern times to even be charged under it, and his charges were dismissed.

He will not be tried as a journalist. The US govt will not recognise his status as a journalist, so none of the legal protections and precedents will be applied. He's just some foreign civilian who aided Manning in obtaining state secrets and then published those state secrets on his blog. He doesn't/didn't work for a recognised journalistic organisation, he doesn't belong to a journalist union or professional body,…

> He will not be tried as a journalist. The US govt will not recognise his status as a journalist

It's not something that the US govt gets to decide. They can argue it in court, but this sort of finding of fact is a matter for the jury, not for the prosecutor or even the judge to decide. Unless he opts for a bench trial, in which case the judge gets to decide, but that is at his option -- nobody can force him to forgo a jury.

Ellsberg did not receive automatic protections as a journalist either, despite the fact that he was by any definition a journalist (and certainly by your criteria) -- he was charged and tried under the Espionage Act, and only the specific circumstances involved resulted in the case's dismissal.

The government will not put all its eggs in the "he's not a journalist" basket either; they'll offer an array of charges so even if the jury finds that he is a journalist, he will not be completely shielded. Nonetheless I think the odds are in his favor; the government will in the end almost certainly have to show evidence of tangible (not just reputational) harm, and that will open the door to "compelling public interest" arguments based on the particular information brought to light.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#163

Post by bitcharmer »

Loughla wrote: post #90
andrewla wrote: post #83

As someone who wants to see Assange go free, I continue to believe the best outcome here is for him to be extradited and face trial in the US. I do not think the government's case is strong enough to convict him, and his being acquitted at trial would be by far the best outcome possible here. The fact that he has been imprisoned in the UK without trial or conviction for the last four years is insane (he has been impr…

Honestly, do you believe he would receive a fair and impartial trial in the united states?

[flagged]

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#164

Post by bitcharmer »

tptacek wrote: post #38

It's becoming increasingly pointless for the US and UK to litigate this as the time Assange spends in formal custody accrues, mooting any likely potential sentence he'd receive in the US. The WSJ has Assange close to a plea deal that would avoid US custody altogether.

[flagged]

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#165

Post by bitcharmer »

polski-g wrote: post #77

I don't know why this is taking so long or why he's fighting it. He will easily win this case citing New York Times Company v. United States as the precedent. A publisher is allowed to publish state secrets if they aren't the ones who originally obtained them.

> He will easily win this case

You can't get any more naive than that :)

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#166

Post by FpUser »

juitpykyk wrote: post #160
FpUser wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have anything to do with the extradition case?

Assange is a russian agent. He's not a journalist.

>"Assange is a russian agent."

Wake me up when the court renders decision that he is.

And even if he is it should have no relation to this particular case.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#167

Post by api »

PickledHotdog wrote: post #135
api wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe “free world” should be in quotes you need to travel more or talk to more expats. Maybe we really do need a little dance with authoritarianism here to remind people what that is.

Traveller and expat here - "free world" is absolutely correct. Even its allies aren't free of government interference from the US.

I meant at the individual level. I don't care nearly as much about what governments can do.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#168

Post by tim333 »

phyalow wrote: post #130
austin-cheney wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london... From reading that article it doesn't sound like there was any plot. Mike Pompeo wanted such a thing, but it was never approved. It was hotly contested and never attempted. The article also made it sound like Russia had more of a plot in action to move Assange to Russia. So there was about as much plot for the US to kidnap Assange as there was to make Mex…

The plot was exceptionally well advanced and was actively surveiling the equadorian embassy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunstler_v._Central_Intelligen...

From that link

>The lawsuit alleged that the CIA violated their constitutional rights by recording their conversations with Assange and copying their devices after suspicions were raised that Assange was working for the Russian intelligence services.

Recording conversations is not the same as plotting a kidnapping.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#169

Post by handity »

andrewla wrote: post #141
handity wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe your hope that he will face anything like a fair trial in the US is misplaced. The conviction the US seeks under the Espionage Act is as good as automatic. There are books and numerous articles covering in minute detail the extraordinary nature of his persecution, detailing the numerous perversions of justice involved.

> The conviction the US seeks under the Espionage Act is as good as automatic I find this assessment to be unsupported. Name a single journalist successfully prosecuted under the Espionage Act. If you have to go back to the 1920s to find an example, then I think I've made my point. Ellsberg was the only journalist in modern times to even be charged under it, and his charges were dismissed.

That is, in fact, an argument brought up by Assange's lawyers in the recent appeal. I know I've seen this brought up elsewhere as well, here is from Craig Murray:

'The point of foreseeability had not been countered. There was no effort made to counter it. In 2010 it could not have been foreseen that publication would bring espionage charges against the publisher. It had never happened before. Encouraging a whistleblower to produce documents was definitely not unprecedented. That was an absurd claim. It was everyday journalistic activity, as witnesses had testified. No witnesses had been produced to say the opposite.'

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/02/assange-fina...

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#170

Post by willcipriano »

hylaride wrote: post #158
willcipriano wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people lives he "put in jeopardy" were OK with spying on every American. I care for their safety as much as they care for my privacy.

A mid-level diplomat in some authoritarian country writing a blunt opinion/analysis of its government's possibly dangerous leaders is not spying on every American.

Sure that could be the person "at risk".

Could also be the guy behind having US troops guard the opium fields of pedophiles during a opioid epidemic

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