Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 179 posts

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#161

Post by mgechev »

troupo wrote: post #159
mgechev wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It introduced very fine-grained code loading on interaction and something the community refers to as resumability.

Could be interesting/useful, but none of these seem to have any impact on the sites like Youtube which loads tens of megabytes of resources, and every interaction takes a second or so to happen. Other sites like Photos are fast and performant, but I wonder if it's due to whatever perceived advantages of Wiz or due to the team actually caring: https://medium.com/google-design/google-photos-45b714dfbed1 Edit: replaced…

Performance always needs to be a priority for a team to hit satisfying metrics.

Wiz is designed to make it harder to get bad metrics if performance is not your top goal.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#162

Post by NoahKAndrews »

troupo wrote: post #147
mgechev wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re building infrastructure for these products rather than the products themselves. I’ll be happy to answer questions about Angular and our collaboration with Wiz :)

If those products end up bloated and slow, perhaps, some blame can be placed on the tools, too?

Maybe that's justified, but it's just as likely that it's not.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#163

Post by finnthehuman »

troupo wrote: post #149
esprehn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google uses Angular quite a lot already. Pretty much all internal tools (bug tracker, code review, release tooling etc) is built with it. There's also a number of public facing apps like GCP Cloud Console and the Gemini web app. Wiz has historically favored performance over ergonomics in the extreme. None of it is open source, and to be honest even if it was it's unlikely most people would want to use the mix of Java…

> Wiz has historically favored performance over ergonomics in the extreme. This unsubstantiated claim is being paraded around by Googlers all over Twitter. And there's literaly nothing to back up this claim. Have you seen the extreme performance of the websites it apparently powers? Here's Youtube's extreme performance: https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1770911027766370648

lol. lmao even.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#164

Post by FreeTheWeb »

throwaway290 wrote: post #14
easton wrote: post #5

For people who didn't know: Wiz is apparently a internal framework that Google uses for their apps that wasn't ever open sourced (at least, not completely, based on a quick search). At least they'll be dogfooding Angular now hopefully.

I thought some teams at Google were dogfooding Angular for many years now?

Wiz is a web framework at google that is abysmal to work with. It’s still living in 2010, it’s all Java backend based, the build times are unbearable, and the templating, Soy, is some Java engineer who loves curly braces too much.

It’s a lot of magic and all convoluted, it’s pathetic a company this large has this as their main offering, JSX is a positive move but it’s still lipstick on a pig as it’s not really JSX but just three Java templates under the hood for now. Signals aren’t the panacea they keep saying as they simply don’t scale in big apps since the data flow is all over the place.

Googlers use Angular at google because despite its garbage size and developer experience, believe it or not, the dev experience is miles better than Wiz. It’s also nowhere near the most popular internal usage framework idk why they say that. It’s Wiz by far.

And all this is because googlers just want React or Vue but are not allowed because they are “not sanctioned”. The same reason why you can’t SSR Angular at google, because Node isn’t even sanctioned. This is all just a Hail Mary by Angular because their NPM numbers are dropping and just got surpassed by Preact of all frameworks.

My job skills are languishing at google because I’m writing Wiz and Angular all day

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#165

Post by peer2pay »

tubthumper8 wrote: post #129
peer2pay wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can upgrade all the way to Angular 17 without having to adopt the new MDC components. Only this May with Angular 18 support for the legacy components will be dropped completely. That’s the reason we’re currently migrating all our remaining usages of Material components to ng-zorro.

They previously announced [1] these would be removed in v17, did that change? [1] https://blog.angular.io/angular-v16-is-here-4d7a28ec680d

No but Angular 17 is backwards compatible with @angular/material@16 so you can upgrade Angular without having to upgrade Material [1]. We currently run @angular/core@17.0.8 and @angular/material@16.2.12 in production without problems.

In the end this only buys you another 6 months but helped us get ready for Angular 18 in May.

[1] https://blog.angular.io/introducing-angular-v17-4d7033312e4b

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#166

Post by peer2pay »

bags43 wrote: post #150
peer2pay wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can upgrade all the way to Angular 17 without having to adopt the new MDC components. Only this May with Angular 18 support for the legacy components will be dropped completely. That’s the reason we’re currently migrating all our remaining usages of Material components to ng-zorro.

Where did you get info for Angular 18?

The announcement post for Angular 17 included a few sentences about this [1]

We deprecated legacy components in v15 to be removed in v17. Even though they’ll not be part of the Angular Material v17 package, you can still update your apps to Angular v17 and use the v16 Angular Material package. This will be an option until v18, after which Angular Material v16 will no longer be compatible with newer versions of Angular.

[1] https://blog.angular.io/introducing-angular-v17-4d7033312e4b

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#167

Post by yogorenapan »

wentin wrote: post #136
whalesalad wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vue is the best framework I have ever used. I can't imagine why anyone would use anything else. Angular has gotta be the worst imho, perhaps Ember. There are big communities around these tools though so I guess the approach resonates with certain folks.

I hate to be THAT GAL, but... try Svelte! I love it more than Vue.

As a backend dev that has dabbled in JavaScript (old school), I love Svelte. It makes reactivity so easy while keeping everything more or less optional and vanilla

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#168

Post by Mawr »

bheadmaster wrote: post #125
pjmlp wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion on Go's "innovation" is well known on HN, and gonuts back when I cared pre-1.0. I could go over those points, one by one into detail, including Russ Cox point of view on disabling binary distribution, but not feeling motivated to press the further the wound.

I have no idea who you are nor do I care about internet pseudocelebrities, sorry. Your opinions, to me, are just words from a random stranger, whose merit is only insofar as I can learn something new from them.

Unfortunately, the sort of soft trolling he keeps doing is allowed on here. It reflects extremely poorly on the mod team and is frankly just pathetic.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#169

Post by mgechev »

mgechev wrote: post #99
lakomen wrote: post #70

I've been working with Angular for 2 years, then moved to Vue and have been with it for, idk 3-4 years now. I like the theory of Angular, the modularity, the way it works, but I HATE rxjs and the complexity of it. And the whole thing on top of rxjs, ngrx. You can't just simply take one value and compare it, no you have to use pipes and rxjs. Also there's an Angular discord and they're very hostile towards anyone not…

>...but I HATE rxjs and the complexity of it. And the whole thing on top of rxjs, ngrx. You can't just simply take one value and compare it, no you have to use pipes and rxjs. We're working on making RxJS optional. In v17.3 `@angular/core` no longer has a dependency on RxJS. In the long-term we'll enable a path forward without RxJS for other core modules as well. That said, we're providing an interop package that ena…

Edit: in v17.3 we have a minimal dependency on RxJS in ApplicationRef and NgZone, but in practice, it's unlikely that you'd need to use these APIs. In the following versions, we'll remove these dependencies and introduce interop APIs as well.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#170

Post by approxim8ion »

Andrex wrote: post #141
approxim8ion wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To offer a differing experience, I've been working in Angular for a couple of years now and personally like it quite a bit. I don't like frontend frameworks in general, but given the choice I prefer Angular over React.

Angular was made for you, basically. I've always seen that as the use case. It never seemed suitable for mostly-frontend devs, but it's probably perfect for mostly-backend ones.

Yeah, that makes sense I suppose. My Java background also means the verbosity and structure doesn't bother me much.
Post reply on HN