Please don't learn to code • Hacker News Board

Re: Please don't learn to code

#161

Post by patdennis » Tue, May 15, 2012, 2:29 PM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #157

patdennis wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. My line of work could be made much easier through some very simple software. The only reason that software doesn't exist is because (I assume that) nobody with programming knowledge understands the needs of someone who does my job. Or cares, for that matter. There aren't many of us. I'm working my way through Ruby on Rails tutorials simply because I think there's tremendous value to…

If you are right there are probably a hundred people on here able to provide a working MVP alongside you and do it faster, cleaner and pick up on solutions you cant possibly know yet. Be a domain expert. But learn to code anyway :-)

I'm sure anyone here could do that. But how many people here are looking for a non technical co-founder? Coders are solving their own problems, and until I can hack together a prototype I don't think I'll be able to draw any attention from real programmers.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#162

Post by MortenK » Tue, May 15, 2012, 2:31 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #107

MortenK wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I might have worded the second paragraph wrong, as it seems a few people have taken it literally and misunderstood my point as being that cooking is a useless skill. Cooking is of course a good skill to have. So is plumbing, car repair and a lot of other things. But this is entirely besides the point. The point was this: Is it a necessity for children to be taught [cooking/car repair/plumbing] on the same lev…

Your initial statement doesn't make sense anymore in the new context you're trying to paint. You're building a strawman here. Absolutely nobody said that programming should be taught " from 1st to final grade in school, 10 hours every week ". And in school you're not learning just " reading, writing, math, communication and similar ". Other disciplines learned in school are biology and its branches, like botany or an…

I don't really know what your argument is, except that you somehow think I'm revising my comment "trying to paint a new context" and even "building a strawman" to boot. Yet you offer no explanations for these very rude remarks.

The parts in my comments about cooking, 10 hours pr week, and the short list of subjects, are all merely examples. Replace it with car repair, 2 hours a week and your informative list of school subjects, and the argument is untouched. It should be obvious that these details are entirely irrelevant.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#163

Post by MortenK » Tue, May 15, 2012, 2:34 PM UTC

artsrc wrote: post #83

MortenK wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I might have worded the second paragraph wrong, as it seems a few people have taken it literally and misunderstood my point as being that cooking is a useless skill. Cooking is of course a good skill to have. So is plumbing, car repair and a lot of other things. But this is entirely besides the point. The point was this: Is it a necessity for children to be taught [cooking/car repair/plumbing] on the same lev…

Is anything taught in the final 4 years of school really universally necessary?

Definitely not! In my own opinion the majority of curriculum both in public school through to many university courses, is a waste of time, but that's a different discussion.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#164

Post by randomdata » Tue, May 15, 2012, 2:34 PM UTC

spinchange wrote: post #151

What a negative message- not unlike the, "Don't be an Entrepreneur" talk from last week. I don't understand these high profile, obviously successful people with public personas being all, "Don't try to do what I did," thinking that will resonate.

I feel the takeaway is that you already, deep down, know what you need to do - so do that.

If you have a burning desire to learn how to program, be an entrepreneur, or whatever else you need to do to make your life complete, you're not going to let a little article get in your way. It is, however, sage advice if you want to become a programmer only because you see dollar signs, despite every bone in your body telling you that you have no interest in the study. That was not going to end well anyway. You cannot duplicate success by copying the actions of someone successful.

The harm in learning how to program if you are only doing it because you want to be the next Jeff Atwood is that you are completely overlooking the qualities you are sitting on, that come with a much great chance of providing your own success.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#165

Post by rglover » Tue, May 15, 2012, 2:34 PM UTC

I'm 50/50 on this one. I think Jeff has some great sentiments on why people shouldn't learn to code, however, I feel there needs to be a bit of separation.

I think what Jeff is trying to refer to are the people who want to learn how to code (or announce that they're going to learn) for vanity sake. I'm sure when CodeYear launched, there were a lot of people who said "I'm going to learn how to code!" as much as there were people saying "I'm going to start exercising!"

There's a dichotomy here. Some people are just doing it to chime in and feel a part of something, while on the other hand, I'm sure there are some that truly want to learn and improve themselves. The team at CodeYear most definitely were looking to service the latter.

Is it annoying to see your profession, hobby, whatever hawked as a mindless skill that anyone can learn? You bet. But there is certainly value in people learning to code and code well. It's up to those of us who already know how to lead and help focus those who are just getting started. Those that are full of themselves will fall by the wayside.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#166

Post by ontoillogical » Tue, May 15, 2012, 2:35 PM UTC

Michael Bloomberg is a very bad example to pick as a prototypical person who would not benefit from learning to program. Bloomberg has something that most of us don't, a staff. The value proposition of learning to program is that it will allow you to learn how to ask your computer questions, and automatically take actions for you.

Bloomberg can ask his staff to call him if an email comes in from an important advisor, but only before midnight, except saturdays where he can be called between noon and 2:30. Bloomberg can ask his staff to compare his popularity vs days in office to that of previous mayors.

Learning to program is about harnessing the power of computers to process data and text for you, and about automating repetitive tasks. If you have a competent assistant and staff, you don't need to program, although you may have tasks that require someone in your employ to know how to program.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#167

Post by cageface » Tue, May 15, 2012, 2:40 PM UTC

Oh hey it's just like last time stupid money was chasing tech around and everybody suddenly wanted to be a programmer!

Once they figure out again that's it's usually tedious and unglamorous work that doesn't pay particularly well on average they'll lose interest again.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#168

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 15, 2012, 3:00 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Please don't learn to code

#169

Post by fistofjohnwayne » Tue, May 15, 2012, 3:00 PM UTC

The other day a friend of mine was playing Taboo. Her word was "network" and she'd been prompted with "what makes the Internet work" or something similar. Her initial guess was "magic".

This is why I believe the "learn to code" movement is fantastic and an obvious net benefit to society -- the more people we have who understand, even loosely, how integral pieces of our lives function, the better.

To me it has nothing to do with these people producing code or entering the programming profession. I devour books on psychology but I don't entertain the notion of becoming a psychologist. I read them to inform and improve my daily life in some small measure.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#170

Post by mindstab » Tue, May 15, 2012, 3:01 PM UTC

jkahn wrote: post #23

I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all. Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that…

> most people don't know what programming even looks like

My mom recently (2012) just asked me if when I'm programming, the screen is full of symbols, kind of like the matrix.

Many people I know consider computers "illogical". We could do a lot to help people understand how a computer works, and the best way is through programming.