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Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

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Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#161

Post by fny »

aaomidi wrote: post #150
fny wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No, it again wasn't. It was to __prevent genocide__, not to determine guilt of committing genocide. This is going to take years, and it's going to be ongoing into the future. It is not going to happen while an incident is happening. The ICJ explicitly said that there's enough evidence to merit this case.

Just 3 quotes from South Africa's case which I linked above:

"South Africa’s case is that those acts and omissions are genocidal in character, as they are committed with the requisite specific intent (dolus specialis) to destroy Palestinians in Gaza as a part of the broader Palestinian national, racial and ethnical group."

"South Africa is acutely aware of the particular weight of responsibility in initiating proceedings against Israel for violations of the Genocide Convention. However, South Africa is also acutely aware of its own obligation — as a State party to the Genocide Convention — to prevent genocide. Israel’s acts and omissions in relation to Palestinians violate the Genocide Convention."

" More gravely still, Israel has engaged in, is engaging in and risks further engaging in genocidal acts against the Palestinian people in Gaza. Those acts include killing them, causing them serious mental and bodily harm and deliberately inflicting on them conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction as a group."

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#162

Post by godelski »

happytoexplain wrote: post #89
godelski wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lotta people reading this comment as if it is taking a moral stance (siding with Google). I didn't read it that way but rather as a comment on the state of the current environment. Did I misread?

The wording and tone are common for broad agreement, both practical and moral (curtness, appeal to popularity, etc). Otherwise, one would normally use a wording that expresses the scope of one's tone, e.g. "Regardless of the issue, I think it's the right call to resort to firing to enforce this rule." (It's hard to come up with a good example that demonstrates exactly what I'm talking about, because the topic is high…

Yeah that's fair. I could see it going either way. But I think when ambiguous it doesn't hurt to ask. And there's a lot of fighting and arguing so I'd rather ask than escalate conflict if there is a misunderstanding. I think we all know how easy it can be to miscommunicate.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#163

Post by fny »

GordonS wrote: post #131
fny wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The ICJ case wasn't intended to say "yes/no" to "is Israel committing genocide?" - the purpose was see if there was that risk. They found there is a plausible risk that Israel is committing genocide. US-backed Israel has recently been shown to have misrepresented itself to the ICJ multiple times - I can dig up a link later if you're curious. And in January Netanyahu said: “No one will stop us, not The Hague, not the…

This is not accurate. South Africa's intent was to convict Israel of genocide. The case they submitted to the court makes that clear.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#164

Post by GordonS »

ReptileMan wrote: post #29

>“I refuse to build technology that powers genocide.” The Google Cloud engineer was subsequently fired Well google cloud can't power genocide, so what is your problem?

I'm not saying it is, but technically, yes, it could play a role. For example, US-backed Israel has used an AI system to decide where to drop bombs. They likely need lots of storage for videos of their drones killing people. They likely used databases with the locations of journalists so they could murder them. Just a few examples, but compute and storage can definitely play a part.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#165

Post by duxup »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #151
duxup wrote: post #34

I'm all for some good old civil disobedience as far as every day choices go in the outside world. However, I also think if you're employed somewhere there are reasonable expectations as far as workplace behavior goes that would prohibit the same "protest" or "civil disobedience" type behavior. It is interesting that the protestor immediately declares that they don't wan to work for such a company. It sorta begs the q…

The trouble is that "reasonable expectations" are set by those in power. Slave overs set "reasonable expectations" for slaves, feudal lords set "reasonable expectations" for peasants. In such a world "reasonable expectations" by their nature foster a continuation of the existing power structures. Behavior that challenges "reasonable expectations" does so precisely because of the belief that the continuation of the st…

I feel like the expectations here are reasonable.

I wouldn't want another employee interrupting my meeting like that either.

As for the rest of your "salve owner" commentary I think that's an absurd comparison.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#166

Post by smashah »

wwweston wrote: post #81

Israel is an inherently inequitable and therefore likely terminally conflict-ridden ethnostate. Israel is a reasonable reaction to a long and terrible history of ethnic persecution. What's going on in Gaza is an unacceptable humanitarian tragedy that is a reaction to an unacceptable attack. There are players on both "sides" of this conflict that are driving it because they actually want the conflict, people who never…

Yeah, the Google employee should've done this in front of Biden or Bibi. Nevermind feeling as though they had no choice but to protest in whatever way they could against a plausible-genocide.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#167

Post by user_7832 »

smashah wrote: post #130
surgical_fire wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Imagine being such a pseudo-contrarian that you say you'd be an employee of the makers of Zyklon B (Tesch and Stabenow/Degesch) with the words "I would, with no regrets". This is "Professionalism" to you, jfc.

It's simply that the anonymity of the internet lets anyone become contrarian easily to prove a point.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#168

Post by segasaturn »

ameister14 wrote: post #87
segasaturn wrote: post #64

Unfortunately lost in the debate over free speech & how private companies have a "right" to suppress people with certain viewpoints is the amount of power these tech companies have over us - I would argue that Google has more power over us now than King George III had over his subjects in 1773, and certainly has more power in stifling information and suppressing speech. Americans can tut-tut Russia and China for supp…

>I would argue that Google has more power over us now than King George III had over his subjects in 1773 This is not the first time I have seen bizarre hyperbole like this - it's quite strange. Russia, China, and King George III all have and had people killed for dissent. Google didn't murder this engineer, imprison him, or anything of the sort. They just stopped paying his salary.

No, you're right. In Russia, China and 18th century England, suppression of speech is done either out the barrel of a gun or whisking people off to jail. In America it's done by sending the speaker to the unemployment line, or the food bank, or the homeless shelter - it's very likely that this employee will be blacklisted by the industry and never have the opportunity to live a stable life again. Apparently this outcome is fair & just, because the government wasn't involved.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#169

Post by themgt »

colechristensen wrote: post #156
themgt wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says he was protesting Project Nimbus which is Google cloud/AI for the Israeli government and military. You can also see the conference he was attending itself hardly shies away from the political/military connections, e.g. “The Israeli tech ecosystem is built on very strong foundations. We have the academia, we have the manpower, and we have the special military units,” said Dina Pasca-Raz, Partner and Head of Te…

My questions weren't just rhetorical, there is nothing in the posted article about the political connection of the meeting / conference that was disrupted.

Cloud computing and AI technology is at the heart of the modern battlefield.

Let's say it was a speech by the Google Palestine director in charge of selling cloud computing and AI technology to the military wing of Hamas, at a conference where a Hamas spokesman was also giving a speech. Would you also consider there to be no political connection there?

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#170

Post by reactordev »

hayst4ck wrote: post #57
reactordev wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This needs to be emphasized more. It's not that they took a stance, it's definitely how they did it that warranted being fired over it.

What's a good way to take a stance?

Others have commented on different avenues and the consequence of it. I will introduce you to another way. Organizing. If you dislike a stance your company or community has, organize others that feel this way and plead your case to the company or community. Unions do this. Student Orgs do this. Political dissent does this. It's probably the most effective method for getting the unheard, heard.

The guy should have started a movement, or a group, using the points from the guest speaker on why they shouldn't have had that speaker, etc etc... This organization of people holds more weight than an individual. This is the way.

Almost every state now has at-will employment laws. The company doesn't need a reason to get rid of you.

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