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Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

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Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#161

Post by al_borland »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #72
tentacleuno wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the reason is that "a good trackpad" as well as "a good keyboard" is not something that can be measured. While I agree that these metrics can be subjective at times, I believe there are some fairly well-established features that dictate whether something is, objectively, a good product. In the case of a trackpad, gestures such as pinch to zoom are arguably an essential (for me at least), as well as stepless…

> In the case of a trackpad, gestures such as pinch to zoom are arguably an essential (for me at least), as well as stepless scrolling, configurable pointer acceleration configuration, and a reasonable size. I'm typing this on my work windows laptop, which can tick all these boxes! But the experience is still terrible. While the acceleration and such are fine enough for my use, I still get the feeling there's some la…

>I still get the feeling there's some lag between my finger movement and the pointer on the screen.

This is a big one. Something I found really impressive, even on the first iPhone in 2007, was that it felt like my finger was moving the display itself, rather than performing a gesture to elicit an action. I feel the same way about the macOS trackpad, it feels almost connected to what is on screen. Other systems usually have that gesture/response feeling, which doesn't feel good natural to use.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#162

Post by snvzz »

LorenDB wrote: post #89
circuit10 wrote: post #16

The main thing I think is missing is universal support for kinetic/inertial scrolling, where you can fling your fingers on the touchpad and it keeps going after you stop. It seems to work with GTK but not Qt

I would find that incredibly annoying for touchpad inputs. Sure, I can understand kinetic input for touchscreens, but touchpads should be precision inputs, not the sort of thing where accidentally bumping two fingers on the touchpad sends you two pages down.

I am suffering that ever since I switched to wayland and the newer GTK version that supports it.

Turns out, in classic GNOME fashion, there's no setting to disable inertia scroll.

And I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.

It is the same problem with smooth scroll, or as I call it "laggy scroll", which forces me to watch an animation, when I made it clear (by scrolling) that I want to be seeing the scroll destination already. That's why I scrolled in the first place!

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#163

Post by zx8080 »

> at the moment, our lead developer is working on Linux touchpad improvements at less than 1/8 capacity. This means that progress is slow as he can only spend half a week per month on improvements.

How does it work? For most engineers, working on some complex task with this kind of scattered schedule means a need to spend the significant time on restoring the context.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#164

Post by al_borland »

ambichook wrote: post #155
al_borland wrote: post #6

Why does this seem like such a hard problem to solve for everyone that isn’t Apple, when Apple seemingly solved the Trackpad over a decade ago? Is this it? An unknown ROI? >the highly uncertain ROI for trying to align touchpad acceleration has prevented us from proposing a system change to the default Linux settings. I can only speak for myself, but I gave up using trackpads on anything that isn’t a MacBook many year…

i'm going to be honest, maybe i'm just not particularly sensitive to poor input devices, but there have only been 2 trackpads i've used that actually felt bad , the vast majority are just... not noticeable to me? like i just use them and everything just feels fine. the only exceptions were a crappy old chromebook i had back in about 2016 and my current HP probook, itself a few years old now. i have heard very good th…

If the price difference between the M1 and M2 air is negligible for you, it would probably be best to go for the M2. The M1 uses the old Intel chassis. The M2 gets the new design which means a better screen, keyboard, speakers, webcam, MagSafe charging. It's well worth a little extra, even if you don't care about the spec bump. Lots of quality of life stuff.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#165

Post by e12e »

ralphist wrote: post #115
e12e wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'll have to watch one of these people who love the Mac touchpad work. We are clearly not working the same way. Even with max speed and acceleration my MacBook air m2 touchpad feel anemic, and cumbersome for selecting text. Fwiw I also have an apple mouse, and the touch based scroll feels unpredictable, and the mouse a bit slow too.

I think you're using it wrong. You can travel a whole screen with one trackpad move if you move the finger fast enough. Maybe you didn't hit a high enough acceleration?

Also when "holding" a window or icon?

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#166

Post by mewpmewp2 »

al_borland wrote: post #158
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right it works, but I guess I somehow usually expect it to happen in a lighter way, without the actual click going through. And when I do it, it feels weird to me. It feels like I have to exert more force than I would find "pleasurable" or "intuitive" for a right click. Like I either expect there to be a button that I have to actually press, or if it's a touchpad it feels like it should work with a lighter ta…

In the settings you can set how much force is needed, light, medium, or firm. Try changing it to light (if you haven't already). You can also enable tap-to-click there if you prefer the lightest touch. The settings area also shows all the various multitouch things that can be done, which is convenient place to learn them, or get a reminder. In the settings you can also flip the modifier keys around, like control and…

Yes, exactly - I did the ctrl cmd switch previously, but then there's

1. Magic Keyboard with no "fn" button.

2. Macbooks own keyboard with FN button. Which really messes with me, because my pinky expects the left most button to be the CTRL action button.

All of it messes with my brain so hard - it makes those little actions hurt me almost every time.

And as you said, different sets of terminals drive me just so crazy.

I might try the settings, but I also overall hate the MacOS settings, as it seems it's all just so obscure and weirdly limited, like someone has given me those random options that do not adhere to me at all. As mentioned previously, no easy ability to turn off acceleration, which keeps gaslighting me and not feeling right even after using CLI to turn it off.

My solution has been to opt just for a mouse, but Magic Mouse feels extremely terrible and awkward to hold. I have Logitech MX Master 3 - which feels nice, but not with Macbook. It sometimes randomly starts to skip and lag, I have to reset it. And it still feels like at times some force is working against me when I'm trying to move the mouse.

I still feel it just somehow working against me even if I have turned off the acceleration, despite it working well with Windows.

And then the MacBook animations, which feel horrible. The jumping up down thing, feels just annoying. The genie effect, terrible, the having to move the app to install it and then no loading indicator, horrible. I know I can turn off the Genie, yes, but it feels so cheesy and cheap animations.

I can honestly list countless things more that I hate about MacOS, but feel so smooth on Windows.

Spotlight feels better with latest MacOS version, but previous ones I always write something, and it just changes moment before, or it gives me irrelevant result. Because I either use spotlight to open the correct app or Windows btn, which is very responsive and always opens what I want.

The search for correct app should be realtime. Also I'm not going to go into window management....

Then one of the very common things I have to do, taking a screenshot from part of a screen and putting it in a clipboard to share with someone. I have to use I think 4 fingers?? And then another click. And all of those 4 fingers in such an awkward position.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#167

Post by Bud »

seszett wrote: post #20
al_borland wrote: post #6

Why does this seem like such a hard problem to solve for everyone that isn’t Apple, when Apple seemingly solved the Trackpad over a decade ago? Is this it? An unknown ROI? >the highly uncertain ROI for trying to align touchpad acceleration has prevented us from proposing a system change to the default Linux settings. I can only speak for myself, but I gave up using trackpads on anything that isn’t a MacBook many year…

I've been reading this kind of opinion for years, but I have always found the touchpad to be annoyingly slow under macOS. On the other hand, MacBooks are basically the only laptops with a large enough touchpad to be comfortable, I don't know if there's some other secret sauce Apple algorithm in the firmware that contributes to the experience, but to me the perfect combination is with a MacBook running Linux, which is…

[dead]

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#168

Post by nullwarp »

ambichook wrote: post #155
al_borland wrote: post #6

Why does this seem like such a hard problem to solve for everyone that isn’t Apple, when Apple seemingly solved the Trackpad over a decade ago? Is this it? An unknown ROI? >the highly uncertain ROI for trying to align touchpad acceleration has prevented us from proposing a system change to the default Linux settings. I can only speak for myself, but I gave up using trackpads on anything that isn’t a MacBook many year…

i'm going to be honest, maybe i'm just not particularly sensitive to poor input devices, but there have only been 2 trackpads i've used that actually felt bad , the vast majority are just... not noticeable to me? like i just use them and everything just feels fine. the only exceptions were a crappy old chromebook i had back in about 2016 and my current HP probook, itself a few years old now. i have heard very good th…

I'm the same way a trackpad is a trackpad. I actually find mac's more annoying because they are so big for some reason and i barely use like a quarter of the entire space of the dang thing but my palm will constantly accidentally trigger it because it's so huge. Why are they so big? drives me nuts.

I also don't use any gestures. I hate moving my hand down to the trackpad at all if i can avoid it and the entire OS seems built around you using the dumb gestures.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#169

Post by Bud »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #124
al_borland wrote: post #6

Why does this seem like such a hard problem to solve for everyone that isn’t Apple, when Apple seemingly solved the Trackpad over a decade ago? Is this it? An unknown ROI? >the highly uncertain ROI for trying to align touchpad acceleration has prevented us from proposing a system change to the default Linux settings. I can only speak for myself, but I gave up using trackpads on anything that isn’t a MacBook many year…

> Why does this seem like such a hard problem to solve for everyone that isn’t Apple, when Apple seemingly solved the Trackpad over a decade ago? Patents?

[dead]

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#170

Post by pico303 »

nerdjon wrote: post #109
TonyTrapp wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even more interesting is when I see my partner try to do something on my Mac using a trackpad, he seems... apprehensive? Like he is so afraid of doing the wrong thing and for me this trackpad has never done something I didn't want it to do. Like without even thinking about it while I was re-reading this comment, I had fingers just resting on my trackpad. I think I'll never "get" drag&drop on MacBook touchpads. Ever…

Since you mention the touchpad being too small, are you trying to drag and drop with one finger or multiple? What I always just do is click with my thumb and move around with my other fingers. As long as my thumb stays down it stays selected. Then just a few quick swipes with my finger gets whatever it is I am selecting where I want to go. Same works for windows and anything you click and drag. Admittedly there is a…

This is 100% the way to do it.

It just came so naturally because I’ve used Macs for years. But I’ve noticed on Linux and Windows laptops (even Windows on an Intel MacBook) this approach doesn’t work. I find it so frustrating when I have to use a trackpad with any other OS, I completely understand all those users carrying around a mouse to use with their laptop, and why they look at us like we’re nuts!

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