The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking • Hacker News Board

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#161

Post by Suppafly » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 9:33 PM UTC

magicalhippo wrote: post #26

Here in Norway, for large appliances there's a 5-year statutory warranty[1], 2 years for smaller appliances etc. It covers anything that's not a wear-item breaking due to normal use. The shop who sold it has the burden of proof in case they want to claim it's been exposed to non-normal usage. The shop has the right to try to repair the damage, but after two times (for the same issue), you have the right to get your m…

>Here in Norway, for large appliances there's a 5-year statutory warranty[1], 2 years for smaller appliances etc.

If a few larger markets would start having similar laws, it'd essentially fix the problem for the rest of us. I imagine currently Norway is small enough that manufacturers can just keep making crap and eat the cost of Norwegian returns.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#162

Post by Suppafly » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 9:35 PM UTC

destitude wrote: post #130

b112 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quebec, Canada one-ups on this! Our warranty law essentially says a "product must work for as long as is reasonable". There is also a very easy way for citizens to apply to a commission, including past judgements, with a simple form and no cost. One can also look at past judgements. So far, the logic is that an expensive fridge should last 10 to 20 years. Same for other appliances. And if companies give the run-aroun…

So do these major manufacturers sell different models in Norway and Quebec?

I suspect those markets are small enough that they just eat the costs when one fails early. We need some bigger markets to get in on these sorts of laws and then they'd have to make better goods.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#163

Post by Suppafly » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 9:38 PM UTC

oldpersonintx wrote: post #87

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hard to maintain a revenue stream if your product is good enough to last Servicing. High-end appliances seem to last just fine.

Nope, talk to appliance people and they will tell you all of the traditional high end brands are junk now too I specifically did not call them "repair" people BTW since most have lapsed into doing mostly installs...it's not even worth it to repair today's s junk and most people just replace. Cost of parts and labor now can easily exceed replacement cost (by design obviously) Maybe Speed Queen is the one exception. I'…

The thing with repair people is that they'll always complain that whatever model they see most often is crap, without comprehending that the reason they see that model most often is because it's sold 10-100x any other model.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#164

Post by Suppafly » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 9:41 PM UTC

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #155

poulsbohemian wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you as a real estate agent I almost always recommend to my clients that they leave the appliances... appliances are a pain to move! No guarantee that your old appliances will fit in the respective places in the house you are buying, likelihood of beating up the walls and floors as you move them in and out of houses, and often it will cost you as much to move it as it would to just buy a new one. Further -…

none of this is anywhere near true. A new refrigerator is roughly $1k for a cheap one, don't tell me someone is going to charge more than that to move a single item. Hell, I've paid for an entire move for less than that.

Why would they be paying to move it at all though when the house they are buying already has perfectly good, and often better, appliances than they would be moving anyway.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#165

Post by Suppafly » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 9:46 PM UTC

badpun wrote: post #103

NackerHughes wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very curious as to whether the money you save in energy bills from today’s more ‘energy-efficient’ appliances outdoes the money spent in replacing the things so much more frequently. Older appliances may cost more to run but it’s possible they pay themselves off by virtue of not having to re-buy them every few years. Speculation, of course. I wonder if anyone’s done the math on this.

Is anyone really having to re-buy appliances every few years? I bought all my appliances back in 2016 (dishwasher, washing machine, induction plate, owen with microwave, fridge, hot water boiler) and none of it broke yet. They're all from different brands, most were cheapest stuff available.

I've had to buy one fridge in my life and it's because the 20+ year old one that came with the house broke, and honestly it was repairable. Likewise, I had to buy one microwave after one that was like 15 years old broke due too much steam getting into the internal workings all the time.

Most new appliances seem to be replacing perfectly functional but outdated appliances in my experience helping people move them. The exception being washers and dryers, but they tend to get mistreated by the owners so it's reasonable that they have a shorter life.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#166

Post by Suppafly » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 9:50 PM UTC

theyeenzbeanz wrote: post #6

It’s not just appliances, it’s even common household items too. Someone disassembled a portable toothbrush that died within some months vs the many years of the one that died before. The original one had what looked like a custom/in house engineered motor with a solid structure and beefy battery. The new one had those cheap toy motors that cost a few pennies each along with a flimsy frame and tiny battery to match.

Sure but I bet the original one cost $100 in 20 years ago money and the new one was $15 on sale. These sorts of comparisons never compare like to like.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#167

Post by Suppafly » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 10:07 PM UTC

stdbrouw wrote: post #100

> A spokeswoman for the Association for Home Appliance Manufacturers says [...] data last updated in 2019 shows that the average life of an appliance has “not substantially shifted over the past two decades.” So, unless she is lying, there is actually no story?

I'm inclined to believe it. Most of the appliances, other than washers and dryers, that I see people replace are generally replaced due to simply wanting something nicer or newer and not because the last one stopped working. People have this belief bias that old appliances are better because of some old fridge in their garage that has been trucking along for 60 years, but the reality is that that is just survivorship bias. The only real exception would be 'smart' features that fail before the core utility of the appliance fails. I imagine a lot of perfectly good fridges get replaced when the tv screens on them break and whatnot.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#168

Post by Suppafly » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 10:14 PM UTC

jaimex2 wrote: post #23

As a consumer you have to do your research more than ever. There are still appliances out there that will outlive you but you need to hunt them down. I recently bought the Gaggia Classic Pro coffee machine for this very reason. You can get into and fix anything in this machine in under 5 minutes.

>Gaggia Classic Pro coffee machine

I can buy a lot of $20 sale price black and decker coffee pots for the $500 that repairable one costs though. There should be a sweet spot between junk and bougie high end stuff.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#169

Post by Suppafly » Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 10:19 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #79

quatrefoil wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appliance repairmen existed in the 1980s, we probably had more of them per capita than we do now, and they had their hands full. The idea that it's often easier to toss out an appliance than to repair it is a newer trend...

It's a straightforward outcome thanks to dropping prices of household electronics. If a new car was the price of a new dishwasher, that would signal the end of car repair shops too.

>It's a straightforward outcome thanks to dropping prices of household electronics. If a new car was the price of a new dishwasher, that would signal the end of car repair shops too.

This, I don't know why so many people fail to recognize this. I suppose part of it is inflation so they forget that basic appliances used to cost 10x what they cost now. My parents had to save up to buy a microwave, I could buy one a week and only be mildly inconvenienced. I just helped a buddy move a fridge that cost ~$1000, that would have been something like $4000 in 1980 dollars.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#170

Post by jaimex2 » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 1:44 AM UTC

Suppafly wrote: post #168

jaimex2 wrote: post #23

As a consumer you have to do your research more than ever. There are still appliances out there that will outlive you but you need to hunt them down. I recently bought the Gaggia Classic Pro coffee machine for this very reason. You can get into and fix anything in this machine in under 5 minutes.

>Gaggia Classic Pro coffee machine I can buy a lot of $20 sale price black and decker coffee pots for the $500 that repairable one costs though. There should be a sweet spot between junk and bougie high end stuff.

It's an espresso machine that makes barista level coffee if you're into coffee culture like we are here in Australia. Yeah, you could just churn pod machines as well, the Aldi ones are pretty good for that as Aldi is super lax on returns.