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Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

federalregister.gov

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Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#161

Post by woe »

patrocles wrote: post #13

The US Tax Code incents US citizens to drop their citizenship before they have 2M USD in net worth. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/877

US tax practice incents every permanent expatriate to drop their citizenship, regardless of net worth.

Every year around this time I stare at a stack of tax paperwork and contemplate the hours out of my life I'm about to lose to end up with a tax return that ends with "0" on the bottom line and I get sorely tempted.

Every year I also wonder if it's going to be the last with "0" on the bottom line. The foreign earned income exclusion this year is $95,100. My salary's higher than that. So far I'm always managed to make up the difference on the foreign housing exclusion, but sooner or later I'm probably going to end up being expected to cut a check to Uncle Sam.

Renouncing costs $450. Once my American tax bill hits that amount, that's probably me making an appointment at the embassy.

Let's be clear: I haven't set foot in the United States for ten years, and I will never move back. I hold an EU passport. I receive absolutely nothing from the United States. Being forced to file intrusive, time-consuming paperwork every year is bad enough, but having to actually pay taxes would be simply unacceptable.

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#162

Post by woe »

Mz wrote: post #104

OT: Anyone know of online resources regarding dual citizenship issues? (Specifically German-American.) Thanks.

Germany has a very restrictive dual nationality policy. Though technically their rules do permit an immigrant to apply to be permitted to keep his original nationality, this is not something you can expect.

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#163

Post by noahc »

patrocles wrote: post #152
noahc wrote: post #128

For those wondering about the Tax issue, I doubt that is the case because of: http://sivers.org/trust He put the company into a charitable trust, which isn't ever taxed except for on what he receives from the trust, which is set to the lowest amount possible.

~20M dollar exit; in the US, trusts have to pay out 5% per year; he has a ~1M income provided the trust invests well.

My understanding is that ~1M a year isn't enough to justify most people loosing their US citizenship over. However, Derek isn't exactly most people.

My general sense on the issue is that money, in particular taxes, is something Derek worries about.

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#164

Post by michaelcampbell »

Bamafan wrote: post #142
cletus wrote: post #90

EDIT: 48 upvotes in an hour and this submission just jumped from top 10 to second page? WTF? Honestly, the US is the most invasive government in the "free" world I've had the misfortune to encounter. I can't think of another developed nation that is quite so overbearing when it comes to foreign income. US citizens who haven't been in the US for 40 years and work in other countries STILL need to report their income to…

"In all honesty the only reason I'm even here is because I want to see it (New York in particular) before it's gone. The US reminds me of the crumbling, dying days of the Roman Empire." Thank god you got there in time! NYC TTYL is down to 5 years. Probably won't be there in 2020. "But now the government seems to consist of self-interested parties who are happy to persecute citizens of every country including its own.…

In the old days, things WERE better.

But that's because in the old days, I was 12.

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#165

Post by michaelcampbell »

jebblue wrote: post #98

I'm pretty sure I'd not pick that country to live in: http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/Singapore/Story/A1S... Short link: http://goo.gl/0vEQj

To be fair, the guy in the story you're linking to overstayed his visa by over 6 mos. This cannot be seriously considered an "oversight", and Singapore is not known for leniency to lawbreakers, which he clearly is. He rolled the dice, and lost.

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#166

Post by jebblue »

michaelcampbell wrote: post #165
jebblue wrote: post #98

I'm pretty sure I'd not pick that country to live in: http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/Singapore/Story/A1S... Short link: http://goo.gl/0vEQj

To be fair, the guy in the story you're linking to overstayed his visa by over 6 mos. This cannot be seriously considered an "oversight", and Singapore is not known for leniency to lawbreakers, which he clearly is. He rolled the dice, and lost.

I agree they were enforcing their laws but to me they seem a bit harsh. I'm glad that in the US you don't get harsh punishment for being here illegally.

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#167

Post by mahyarm »

jarek wrote: post #148
mahyarm wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not be Canadian and not live in the USA?

If you aren't a permanent resident you are almost always tied to your current job, and can technically be required to leave within two weeks if you are laid off or fired. (Getting a new job that would accommodate your visa requirements on a two-week notice might not be trivial.) If you are a permanent resident, you are subject to many of the annoyances discussed (i.e., IRS) without the benefits of citizenship...

He was talking about not living in the USA specifically, so your not tied to your job like that, and you don't have any US tax requirements unless the income comes from the USA.

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#168

Post by jarek »

mahyarm wrote: post #167
jarek wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you aren't a permanent resident you are almost always tied to your current job, and can technically be required to leave within two weeks if you are laid off or fired. (Getting a new job that would accommodate your visa requirements on a two-week notice might not be trivial.) If you are a permanent resident, you are subject to many of the annoyances discussed (i.e., IRS) without the benefits of citizenship...

He was talking about not living in the USA specifically, so your not tied to your job like that, and you don't have any US tax requirements unless the income comes from the USA.

Wow, sorry, I completely missed the "not" in your post. My bad.

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#169

Post by Mz »

woe wrote: post #162
Mz wrote: post #104

OT: Anyone know of online resources regarding dual citizenship issues? (Specifically German-American.) Thanks.

Germany has a very restrictive dual nationality policy. Though technically their rules do permit an immigrant to apply to be permitted to keep his original nationality, this is not something you can expect.

Thanks for replying, though I seem to have given the wrong impression. I am a former military wife. One of my children was born in Germany. I have told him it would be a bad idea to just show up in Germany. My understanding is he has dual citizenship and could potentially be drafted. The discussion here made me wonder if there might be more info online regarding potential repercussions of his status. I have no plans at this time to move outside the country, so I was not inquiring about pursuing dual citizenship.

Again, thanks for responding.

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#170

Post by mahyarm »

run4yourlives wrote: post #102
cletus wrote: post #90

EDIT: 48 upvotes in an hour and this submission just jumped from top 10 to second page? WTF? Honestly, the US is the most invasive government in the "free" world I've had the misfortune to encounter. I can't think of another developed nation that is quite so overbearing when it comes to foreign income. US citizens who haven't been in the US for 40 years and work in other countries STILL need to report their income to…

Every country has requirements of its citizens. A lot force you to serve in the Armed Forces. The US doesn't do that. While I agree that the US isn't as welcoming as it once was and has always had an onerous tax code, for foreigners it is still a huge benefit to work and do business there. The funny thing is that Citizenship in the US has been essentially devalued by non-citizen working categories that have been deve…

PR Cards are canada are pretty close to citizenship. PRs get subsided educations and are treated like citizens for all rights and purposes. Other than voting, political office, passports and other standard citizen benefits I don't know how Canada's PR is any worse than a US PR.
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