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PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

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Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#161

Post by CharlesW »

DANmode wrote: post #151
CharlesW wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be conflating "PWA" with the Safari + Home Screen integration that allowed users to add a web[site|app] (PWA or not) to the iOS Home Screen. Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. It's now the responsibility of alternative browser engine vendors to integrate with Shortcuts so that you can add PWAs and other web[sites|apps] to the Home Screen using your browser engine of choice. The additional be…

> Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. This has yet to be made clear to me. Could you attempt to convince us?

The DMA requires that Apple not favor Safari. A direct integration between Safari and Home Screen favors Safari, and so is not allowed under the DMA.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#162

Post by sccxy »

palata wrote: post #49
deergomoo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m 50/50 on this: if I care about something enough to install it rather than going to a website, I’ll take a half decent native app over a PWA any day, even without the gimping on Apple’s part. Truly native anyway; I have a strong dislike for stuff like Flutter both conceptually and in practice. But I also consider Apple’s iron grip on the platform to be against the spirit of computing, and I think having a viable a…

> But I also consider Apple’s iron grip on the platform to be against the spirit of computing But the problem here is the App Store, right? Both native iOS apps and PWAs need access to the hardware, which is provided by Apple. Really my understanding is that people push hard for PWAs either because they want to work around the App Store, or because they are web dev (and every dev tends to be imperialist with their fa…

People just like the open web. PWAs are part of the open web.

It's not so fun when Apple decides to change the app store rules and now your app is banned forever.

There is no guarantee that your app won't disappear from the App Store tomorrow.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#163

Post by willsmith72 »

BadHumans wrote: post #101
usrusr wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have a complete Apple development environment, PWA is the best shot you have getting that little offline note taking to run on an iPhone.

That's not what I'm asking about. Whether it's Apple, Android, or desktop, if I just want to make an offline app why would I use a PWA?

the argument isn't why use a PWA, it's why use a native app?

in most cases, a team wants their product to be easily installable, live on the home screen, and have access to all native APIs. right now, the best way to do that is a native app

the cost to that is going through the app store, meaning paying apple for the dev license, paying apple a percentage of sales, adhering to the app store rules, allowing extra time before release to get apple approval, difficulty updating because you need apple's approval and the user to update it, needing apple hardware, separate codebase/dev skills for android/ios, etc.

if you don't need those pros above, you could maybe get away with a PWA, and avoid all of that hassle. in most cases, you can't, but avoiding all of that stuff is the value prop for a pwa

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#165

Post by smallerfish »

paulddraper wrote: post #139
smallerfish wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Pixels are now shipping 7 years of updates.

Lol. My Pixel is newer than that, and I haven't gotten a single update in 2.5 years.

They started this on a recent gen, maybe 7. Certainly 8.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#166

Post by kmbfjr »

bowsamic wrote: post #117
palata wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right but that isn't really a thing anymore. "Wanting to be closer" does not mean "needing to be at the lowest theoretical level". In this case it just means that native mobile frameworks are one layer of abstraction lower than web frameworks, and it is better (not cheaper, not easier, but better).

Native libraries are already an huge abstraction. Anyone can write a GUI framework, even on iPhone. I don’t understand where the line is being drawn here

Lets start with a browser based application that struggles with basic IOS capabilities. Not entirely a web app’s fault, but dealing with badges and push notifications will most certainly be a better experience in a native app.

I admit that I am not saddened by this hurdle. The moment that becomes a thing, further enshitification will ensue with every web site trying to drop and icon and start pushing messages.

“Closer to metal”? Not sure you are wrong to ask if there is a line given SwiftUI. That is some very high abstraction.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#167

Post by hardcopy »

usrusr wrote: post #65

I expect PWA to remain noticeably limited relative to native, and probably with a noticeable gradient between Google and Apple. But I also expect PWA to steamroll all conventional app development nonetheless: PWA optionally bundled with some native components for filing the gaps, as in Tauri. Progressive will just grow another stage beyond manifest and serviceworker: manifest and serviceworker running in a customized…

> PWA optionally bundled with some native components for filing the gaps, as in Tauri.

Isn't that essentially Capacitor?

https://capacitorjs.com

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#168

Post by jaegerpicker »

BandButcher wrote: post #6

Understandable... PWAs are ultimately an alternative path from traditional mobile apps which will take away money from apple/google. But as a web dev community we need to stand firm and build PWAs regardless. If we treat pwas on iOS like we did Internet explorer (i.e. giving it special attention and hack solutions as opposed to just not developing for it) we will lose the fight. I suggest you call out the issues with…

I'm a web developer and native app developer but I'm also a user. If I want to use a service and they have a message saying "for the best experience, use " I will never use that service again. There are no apps or services that would cause me to switch. So you can take that stance but you are just hurting your app because you as a developer don't want to learn native apps.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#169

Post by paulddraper »

smallerfish wrote: post #165
paulddraper wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol. My Pixel is newer than that, and I haven't gotten a single update in 2.5 years.

They started this on a recent gen, maybe 7. Certainly 8.

It hasn't been 7 years yet for either the Pixel 7 or the 8, but I suppose Google never cancels things.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#170

Post by elevatedastalt »

MilaM wrote: post #35
freedomben wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can quickly and easily make an app for myself and my family that works without having to provision their devices or pay a dev license to Apple. I also use it at work for internal apps. This is exactly why they don't want it. Some will say it's because those are Apple's users and Apple wants to ensure a great user experience and doesn't want unapproved things running on their devices, and others will say it's beca…

They would probably ban browsers altogether from iOS, if they could get away with it. Fortunately we are not there yet.

I often say that the only reason email is in the form it is today is because it happened before corporate interests took over communication.

If it had been invented today you could only iMessage other iDevice holders. Maybe you would also have had another for-profit middleware company just to deliver messages between Apple and Android devices. Something like a telephone exchange.

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