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Weaveworks is shutting down

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Re: Weaveworks is shutting down

#161

Post by yebyen »

master_crab wrote: post #65
FourierEnvy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this is nice if you have large teams and repeatable projects. Smaller companies have much more ad-hoc requests. I stood up an entirely new type of project end-to-end from a docker compose into our cluster. Re-used alot of code base but it was still a bit of work. Much less than it used to be though.

This. We looked at weaveworks and its competitor both as a product and an investment (mid 6 figure usage). Our big issue was that we had a lot of smaller teams doing different things and not one or two featured items raking in the majority of our revenue. These solutions work if you have a bunch of snowflake workloads by design (or bad design).

> a bunch of snowflake workloads by design (or bad design).

That's a really interesting characterization of WGE, and I can't say I disagree much (my personal opinion as an ex-Wyvern/OSS Engineer DX @ weaveworks)

Re: Weaveworks is shutting down

#162

Post by cangeroo »

I think it's worth giving praise for their contributions to Flux.

In my network, I'm the only one using ArgoCD. Supposedly they're equals, but it always made me curious to try Flux.

Are there any statements about the future of Flux and other open source tools, and whether the remaining community has enough resources to maintain development, or if they will reduce their contributions to only fixing critical bugs?

Re: Weaveworks is shutting down

#163

Post by gtirloni »

goalonetwo wrote: post #147
gtirloni wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that was so popular in the late 2010s Was? What's more popular than that today?

Since the end of the free money era, a lot of people are rightly questioning the microservice/k8s/cloud-native model that requires you to run an operation team of 20 people and has a baseline cost of 200k$/year for a cluster that doesn't do anything yet.

It really doesn't and you won't get anything useful out of any discussion by making these exaggerations.

Re: Weaveworks is shutting down

#164

Post by debarshri »

We will never understand the journey of the founders here. In the journey you make mistakes, some of them fatal some of them not so fatal. But the bottomline is that weaveworks did built some awesome tools for the k8s ecosystem. They kind of propagated Gitops in k8s ecosystem.

This is also a cautionary tale for the opensource centric businesses. I remember in my previous job, they would bundle and sell weavescope in the offering where in they would just get the latest version from quay or docker hub as is. I saw the same pattern with Grafana tools. Alot of "Make k8s simple" platforms bundle bunch of these VC funded devtools as offering. Loss of value sometime pains me.

Re: Weaveworks is shutting down

#165

Post by mcherm »

axiak wrote: post #117
propter_hoc wrote: post #83

I know this isn't the craziest startup shutdown story, but wow. At $10MM of revenue they can afford to keep a staff of 50 at a fully loaded cost per employee of $200,000. Yet, according to Linkedin they peaked at nearly 200 employees. On top of this, they appear to have raised $36 million three years ago - https://www.weave.works/press/releases/weaveworks-raises-36-... In other words they somehow were running at a lo…

If they received $36 MM in a fundraise 3 years ago, you better believe that those investors put pressure on the business to grow fast or die trying. Those investors are not looking for a somewhat risky medium % return, they're looking for each company to have a small % chance of being a unicorn.

So who out there is running an investment fund that's looking to make a much more reasonable rate of return off successful but slowly growing companies? Because I would put money into that fund.

Re: Weaveworks is shutting down

#166

Post by QuiDortDine »

fngjdflmdflg wrote: post #71
ralph84 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atlassian’s market cap is $55 billion. GitLab’s market cap is $11 billion. GitHub sold for $7.5 billion in 2018. There’s money, you just have to be more than a point solution.

Wow, didn't know that about Gitlab. Here's a source[0] for that claim in case anyone else wanted to know. Seems a bit high imo but what do I know? [0] https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/gtlb More info here: https://about.gitlab.com/press/releases/2021-10-13-gitlab-an... https://handbook.gitlab.com/handbook/being-a-public-company/

GitLab's not too surprising, they're a very valued player in the open-source space.

Re: Weaveworks is shutting down

#167

Post by yebyen »

cangeroo wrote: post #162

I think it's worth giving praise for their contributions to Flux. In my network, I'm the only one using ArgoCD. Supposedly they're equals, but it always made me curious to try Flux. Are there any statements about the future of Flux and other open source tools, and whether the remaining community has enough resources to maintain development, or if they will reduce their contributions to only fixing critical bugs?

Flux has a pinned discussion for nearly a month now, to be as upfront as possible, without being able to disclose anything that might be privileged information, but anticipating that the news would get out about our backer sooner or later (aiming to avoid 100 threads about the same topic)

https://github.com/fluxcd/flux2/discussions/

tl;dr: Flux is a graduated CNCF project and not going anywhere

Re: Weaveworks is shutting down

#168

Post by lmm »

yebyen wrote: post #160
lmm wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jenkins still does stuff that you can't do with GH Actions. Actions ate Travis / TeamCity / CircleCI, all the "more polished Jenkins for the 80% use case" products.

What does Jenkins do that you can't do with GH Actions and Flux?

Based on the last time I looked: good handling of dependencies between builds (e.g. the ability to do an "edge build" where for any change in a given project, you check whether that will break your other projects when they upgrade to depend on that), advanced scheduling, plugins that integrate all sorts of random tools into your build views.

Re: Weaveworks is shutting down

#169

Post by ants_everywhere »

goalonetwo wrote: post #146
rdedev wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>80% of startups that are "successful" follow this pattern Doesn't this sound like selection bias? If every other startup follows this shoot fornthe moon plan then yeah it just becomes a self fulfilling prophecy

it completely is and that is the point of the comment. You never hear of the 95% of unsuccessful startups But everyone is following the runbook as if they were the successful 1% (not even the successful 5%, they all act as if they are the top 1%)

> But everyone is following the runbook as if they were the successful 1% (not even the successful 5%, they all act as if they are the top 1%)

I think it's because that's what makes sense from the VC's perspective. To the VC each startup is a lottery ticket with a low probability of an outsized success and a high probability of failure.

You can burn the startup as hard as you can, because the cost is primarily borne by the startup and the founders. If the startup fails it doesn't matter much to the investor because the portfolio is constructed to be resilient to a large number of failures.

What the OP is getting at is: if you look at this from the startup/founder's perspective isn't that kind of a huge waste? And yeah, it is. But I think the idea is that startups and founders aren't pets, they're cattle.

Re: Weaveworks is shutting down

#170

Post by [deleted] »

ushakov wrote: post #95
mooreds wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There’s no money in DevTools. MongoDB, Snyk and Auth0 might beg to differ. (I work for an Auth0 competitor.) > Businesses will see you as cost, not asset Isn't that true of any tool? How are devtools different (from a business perspective)?

The services you're describing (Databases, Security, Auth) have become commodities. This means cut throat competition. Most new players will not have enough to differentiate them from existing offerings

[deleted]
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