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Deno in 2023

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Re: Deno in 2023

#161

Post by willsmith72 »

Kinrany wrote: post #106
willsmith72 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that feels like a really weak value prop to me. how often do you have to install that stuff? how hard is it actually? can you really not use, e.g. for react, the typical vite starter and it's done?

For one-off scripts: every time. So Deno is better at small scripts written in Typescript than Node. Then, the question becomes, if you're going to have Deno installed and if it works well enough to replace Node, why keep Node?

then you have to define "works well enough to replace Node"

i was excited about bun too, until v1's "drop-in node replacement"

that was in no way a drop-in node replacement. using that would be the fastest way to kill a business with its terrible bugs and rough edges.

i used to be really excited about deno, but now i think the tradeoffs aren't going to be worth it for mass adoption. i sometimes write servers in go. now that i have go installed, should i use it for all my servers? no, it's just another tool with different trade-offs. most times, node will suit my project better.

Re: Deno in 2023

#162

Post by tracker1 »

kebman wrote: post #65

"Jupyter, the open source notebook tool, added support for JavaScript and TypeScript using Deno. This means data science, visualization, and more can all be done using modern JavaScript and TypeScript and web standards APIs." I love this! At the same time, who would want to do this, given Python's excellent support for numbers and mathematics? And what about Haskell?

Easier dependencies.

Re: Deno in 2023

#163

Post by ravenstine »

papruapap wrote: post #50
mborch wrote: post #47

> A program run with Deno has no file, network, or environment access unless explicitly enabled. You can do this using containerization technology, no need to invent this per language runtime.

Agree. This feature just make it worse as a script language, which are supposed to have rapid development.

Why? `--allow-all` is the epitome of trivial. You can even wrap the deno executable in a script that passes that to it every time if that's what you really need.

Re: Deno in 2023

#164

Post by user3939382 »

tracker1 wrote: post #148
user3939382 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally get the idea of bringing JS into new environments because it is so ubiquitous. On the other hand, I hate the language and wish we could replace it in the browser, the opposite direction. I'd be much happier with ClojureScript or PureScript or something being the standard with the ecosystem to go with it.

So use WASM with the language of your choice and best of luck to you with that.

That's why I mentioned ecosystem, it's not just about syntax.

Re: Deno in 2023

#165

Post by ravenstine »

mborch wrote: post #47

> A program run with Deno has no file, network, or environment access unless explicitly enabled. You can do this using containerization technology, no need to invent this per language runtime.

Not all software is shipped using containers. For example, with Deno, you can compile your application into a single executable binary. By having permissions built into the runtime, this means you can import a third-party package but only allow network requests to go to specific URLs; this way, even if malicious code is referenced in the app, it can't phone home.

Re: Deno in 2023

#166

Post by pests »

landr0id wrote: post #160
pygy_ wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slint uses https://github.com/AccessKit/accesskit to provide cross-platform a11y.

> a11y I apologize for this being so besides the point of your post, but I hate this trend so much.

It has to be going on at least a decade right? Is it really a trend?

Re: Deno in 2023

#167

Post by FragenAntworten »

BD103 wrote: post #79
MadSudaca wrote: post #26

I know it sound silly but I love the aesthetic behind Deno's brand, it makes me want to use it for one project or another. Node.js is so old now. it's reliable but boring. I want something new, bold, and daring. Node.js is not it, although it was ~11 years ago. It's interesting how our views change.

I know! The dinosaur brand is awesome :)

I agree! I'm very pleased to see the return of the Deno dino.

Re: Deno in 2023

#168

Post by landr0id »

pests wrote: post #166
landr0id wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a11y I apologize for this being so besides the point of your post, but I hate this trend so much.

It has to be going on at least a decade right? Is it really a trend?

i18n has been around for ever and makes sense since in code it’s a bit long. Then k8s, which never made sense to me. I don’t know if it’s appropriate to call it a trend, but I’ve seen people doing it more frequently.

The irony with this example is people with screen readers will hear something like “aEleveny” and it looks like “ally”.

Re: Deno in 2023

#169

Post by refulgentis »

landr0id wrote: post #168
pests wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has to be going on at least a decade right? Is it really a trend?

i18n has been around for ever and makes sense since in code it’s a bit long. Then k8s, which never made sense to me. I don’t know if it’s appropriate to call it a trend, but I’ve seen people doing it more frequently. The irony with this example is people with screen readers will hear something like “aEleveny” and it looks like “ally”.

People with screen readers are aware of acronyms even if they have poor vision, and it's unclear to me what the problem is, a11y has been around forever and in code it's a bit long.

Reading again, is the trend you detest...abbreviations that have a number representing letter count? Based on the existence of k8s and a11y?

Re: Deno in 2023

#170

Post by tracker1 »

qprofyeh wrote: post #31
vorticalbox wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure but is that a bad thing? this regions probably see next to or zero use and cutting them frees up money to be used on other things.

They’re operating like a startup, which like you say should be perfectly fine. Can’t pretend like a giant when you don’t have the bank account for that. Though they’re also selling a developer ecosystem. A lock-in. Are you willing to bet your company’s own software tools on a vendor that could go bankrupt from their other (hosting) business? The question is if Deno hosting dies, will Deno as a platform still thrive?

I don't think Deno itself is going anywhere if the startup fails, there's also self hosting.

It's be tough, but going the other way to Node as a transition is entirely possible with relatively minor effort.

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