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EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO
161–170 of 318 posts
Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
They wouldn't have to put all their fabs here. But if they want the latest ASML machines they need to have at least one big fab inside the EU, or else they only get one generation back. There's only a handful of companies in the world producing chips at scale, so it wouldn't be too out of the question. You could even invite the Chinese to put their fabs in the EU so that they get a chip sector they control but also m…
Isn't it better (though harder) to have a good environment for building things than to just write protectionist rules?
At what cost? An environment with slave labor would be great if you wanted to have things produced for cheap. Should we allow slave labor to stay competitive?
This is a pretty extreme example, but that's what it comes down to. Thanks to the free market, there's always going to be someone willing to do it for cheaper while sacrificing product quality, employee welfare, or environmental impact.
Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah I've worked in a couple of startups in the UK now that I was surprised to discover got most of their funding from the EU. E.g. Ultrahaptics (which was an obviously flawed idea) got most money from Horizon 2020, not customers. Kind of weird that these wastes of money are never in the news, not even during Brexit.
Want to bet you've never heard of most of the companies that benefited from vast amounts of US government research grants that helped lay the foundations for much of the US tech industry? Most people won't have heard about most the successful companies that resulted from the combination of military spending and research grants, much less the many failures on the way. If we knew how to pick the successes ahead of time…
I mean no one in the USA cares because the USA has accomplished amazing things with that money like say the internet.... Spending in Europe hasn't accomplished a fraction of what the same dollar has done in the USA. It's not clear why.
Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m all for a sound industrial policy, but comparing market cap to GDP isn’t helpful. Better to compare corporate revenue which is typically 5% or less of market cap for FAANG.
> Better to compare corporate revenue which is typically 5% or less of market cap for FAANG. I wouldn’t even bother with that much. You’re comparing international corporations’ reported revenue with one measure of one country’s general economy. I know a lot of us here are from countries that are either really really big or really really rich or both, but most countries are not really really big or really really rich.…
Reported revenue is pretty reliable. Profits not so much. Revenue for a company and GDP for a country are at least broadly comparable.
Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO
#165The EU is simply too scared to actually put it's foot down. If they really want to, they can just limit the export of ASML machines only to companies that have at least one of their fabs here in the EU. But they won't. In stead they will just handover €30 billion of public money to multinational corporations with market caps larger than the yearly GDP of some EU countries. Edit: For clarity, I'm not suggesting bannin…
> If they really want to, they can just limit the export of ASML machines only to companies that have a fab here in the EU. US gets really unhappy and makes Taiwan ban exports of TSMC chips and products containing TSMC chips to EU. Oops. EU would've to onshore the whole supply chain first. Probably a 100B-1T€, 10-30y endavour. Good luck with that.
Does not work like that, EU has big stake in the EUV-tech. I see no problem in forcing ASML to build a fab in Europe.
Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
They wouldn't have to put all their fabs here. But if they want the latest ASML machines they need to have at least one big fab inside the EU, or else they only get one generation back. There's only a handful of companies in the world producing chips at scale, so it wouldn't be too out of the question. You could even invite the Chinese to put their fabs in the EU so that they get a chip sector they control but also m…
Isn't it better (though harder) to have a good environment for building things than to just write protectionist rules?
Even if you have the best environment others still have the protectionist rules
Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Having a foreigner stay in the long term could be worse, economically. Five years of taxation on highly-paid individuals - who are presumably producing far more than their salary to the companies paying them - is essentially free money for the country. You did not spend tax money on their education so far and are reaping all the benefits. Now, if they stay permanently, you will have to pay their pensions and healthca…
> You did not spend tax money on their education so far and are reaping all the benefits That is one possibility. Another is that the foreigner may have got the job instead of it going to a local. It's also possible that as a result of that the local may be unemployed and hence costing the country money.
In my experience Europe has a dramatic shortage of highly skilled workers, in technology and healthcare in particular. There are simply not enough qualified workers.
I also believe that the economy is not a zero sum game where there is a finite number of jobs. If the Netherlands suddenly absorbed 20k Silicon Valley workers, they would not simply replace 20k local workers. One of them might even create a company that ends up employing that amount of people.
Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a local I support this. Simply because having more smart people eventually benefits Dutch society and the long term is far more important than the short term. Usually this argument is based in some for of jealousy, but consider: an expat gives up their current life to chance it all on another, has stupendously high private costs if they want to keep up with their family and has to start all over again from scratch…
How exactly does that benefit the country outside driving up the cost of living for locals (which can't afford rents, houses or other services), since they actually have to pay taxes and are outbid by foreigners which don't really contribute that much to the tax base or have any intention of staying beyond the time in which they extract maximum wealth?
The people that hire expats are usually Dutch. Ask them why they hire expats, why they even make booths on other countries and do cold-calls (emails, linkedin) to convince them to go to NL. They're the ones with the answer of where the benefits are going to.
Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO
#169As a knowledge worker who immigrated to the Netherlands in 2022 and also lives in Eindhoven, these insights and discussions are super interesting to me. Unlike most of my nearby expat peers, I didn't move here to work at ASML or Philips, but now that I'm here, it's undeniable; the appeal of working for such companies is huge. Obviously, companies want to make money, but the goals of the government have somewhat been…
> some resentment on the ground from citizens
In many cases resentment is for low-skilled (or no skills at all) migration. Yet many european governments punish highly-skilled migrants yet don't listen to their citizens regarding actual issues on migration. Loose-loose situation for citizens, companies and governments.
Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
I work at said company with just a bachelors degree and make (way) more than that. I think its mostly PHD's that are paid shit comparatively to the US, lol. I've heard it's because there's little to no competition. If you have PHD's in certain fields, you can either work at ASML here or do something else unrelated to your PHD.
> I think its mostly PHD's that are paid shit comparatively to the US, lol. No. The salaries at all levels in Europe are lower than in the US, regardless of a few outliers. That part is indisputable.
Both claims can be true (all salaries lower, PhDs paid poorly).
I don't have a PhD, but from what I've heard in the US, PhDs are paid pretty poorly there too, compared to their level of education and the level of work they do compared to, for instance, a software engineer with a Bachelor's.