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The rise of batteries in six charts

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Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but a solar panel literally feet from the EV it is charging avoids massive transmission infrastructure.

That doesn't make sense. Very few EV owners will recharge over the length of the day while sitting at home.

Most EVs, like any other personal cars, spend more time in a garage at home than they do anywhere else.

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#162

This is a great set of charts and analysis, although I have two problems with it. 1. On the chart of energy density, I'd like to see the the energy density of petrol for comparison. It's much higher, and even though extrapolation is dangerous, I'd like to see how long it could take to reach parity given some of the different forecasting models they mention. Specifically regarding their mention of air travel, I'd like…

> I'd like to see the the energy density of petrol for comparison. Petrol's higher energy density doesn't matter as much as people think. Electric vehicles are around four times as efficient as petrol. In a petrol car, only 20% of the energy is converted to motion. In electric cars, this is around 80% (with some variation dependent on regenerative braking). I wrote about this extensively in a previous article: https:…

> In a petrol car, only 20% of the energy is converted to motion. In electric cars, this is around 80%

How does it settle out when you take into account the significantly higher weight of EVs?

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#163
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a quick check showed about 21 Billion Gallons annually to make 130k tons of lithium batteries are produced. so 273 billion kWh of hydrocarbon fuel burned to make batteries that can hold only 51.5 million kWh of energy. And then roughly a few billion or more to fill them up each year. What year will we make enough solar & wind power to compensate for the 21 billion gallons of fuel?

A quick check shows the 21 billion gallon number you're (not) citing is likely bullshit. https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/environment-v... > David Checkel, a professor at the University of Alberta and an electric car expert, did some back-of-the-napkin math to dispute the claim. Checkel calculated that if each gallon of fuel costs $3, then 21 billion gallons would cost $63 billion annually. If $63 billi…

what's the correct figure? it's easily 100x the output

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#164
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diesel is more like 3.175 (25%) due to the inefficiencies of small heat engines. You're throwing away like 3/4 of the energy as waste heat. Electric motors are >95% efficient and lithium batteries are in the high-90s percent efficient. Electricity is already low-entropy, whereas energy from burning petrol is high entropy and thus contains less useful work.

it's not waste half the year

It's still waste, because if you're in a fixed location (which you'd have to be in order to benefit from much of the heat) you'd be better off running a heat pump.

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#165
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a quick check showed about 21 Billion Gallons annually to make 130k tons of lithium batteries are produced. so 273 billion kWh of hydrocarbon fuel burned to make batteries that can hold only 51.5 million kWh of energy. And then roughly a few billion or more to fill them up each year. What year will we make enough solar & wind power to compensate for the 21 billion gallons of fuel?

> Nonetheless, it is shown that conventional gasoline and diesel vehicles emit the highest amount of total life-cycle GHGs in comparison to vehicles powered by other available energy resources. When using green electricity, plug-in hybrid electric and fully electric vehicles can reduce the total life-cycle emission in comparison to combustion engine vehicles by 73 % and 89 %, respectively. https://www.sciencedirect.c…

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Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make sense. Very few EV owners will recharge over the length of the day while sitting at home.

Most EVs, like any other personal cars, spend more time in a garage at home than they do anywhere else.

Yes, at night without the sun.

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God it's gotten worse. Last time I looked they had flights to PHL and DTW. As it is now there is fierce competition for bus service from Ithaca to NYC (budget to various grades of premium) and I find it almost unimaginable that I'd fly to NYC to get to NYC because flying to JFK or atrocious EWR (never once made a transfer at EWR that didn't involve re-entering the secure zone) wouldn't save time to get to Midtown. If…

You're right I was not thinking of the probable more common use case that a trip originating at ITH is only connecting at JFK and eventually arriving elsewhere. For that traveler a train to Manhattan doesn't work as well.

If it was all integrated it could be great. I have always been puzzled about how few Americans will use public transit to the airport. When I go to a conference in San Francisco I run into European conference goers on the BART but if I am with American coworkers they always insist on taking the SuperShuttle. Similarly I’ve usually taken the subway to JFK even when it meant riding on an insipod shuttle bus

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#169

Take 25% of the money spend on EV batteries and instead spend it on domestic solar panels. I cannot stand the smugness of people who will pay $$,$$$ for a car but won't spend $,$$$ on the thing to make power for that car. Even batteries. The net carbon saved by in-home battery+solar is far more than putting batteries in the family car. The car runs a few hours a day. A total off-grid solar+batteries domestic system s…

I bought an EV because I assumed the dollars I had to spend would have more “leverage” by incentivizing an electric-car business, which would in turn drive improvements and reduced cost in battery production, and that would have follow-on benefits well beyond the car industry. I think the recent drop in battery prices is good evidence that this process is a real one. It goes without saying that any individual’s contribution is negligible.

Re: The rise of batteries in six charts

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot reasonably run lengths of 110v extension cords down the block to charge a car overnight I used to run extension cords out of windows and across the sidewalk to charge a Fiat 500e.

Works if you live in a first-floor, street-facing unit and can reliably park in front of it. Otherwise it can be tough. It's unfortunate that EVs make the most immediate sense in high-density urban settings, but those same settings have lots of people who can't use the simple kinds of charging infrastructure (eg, Level 1/2 chargers).

IMO EVs work best in medium density urban settings, where people still probably have their own garages or at least private parking spots but aren't likely to need to do 100+mi drives constantly.

Truly high-density urban settings should ideally find transportation solutions without cars.

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