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The case for single-stair multifamily

thesisdriven.com

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Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#161

Post by andix »

ghaff wrote: post #127
andix wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same for many European cities and towns. Many cities started to reduce it down to 0.5 parking spaces per flat or less, because many of those parking spaces tend to be empty in bigger cities. And just increase prices for housing.

I was just visiting a European friend for a couple weeks. They have a car but parking was a sufficient drama that they took the Uber equivalent within the city most of the time. Busses but minimal metro.

I honestly don't see the drama in most European cities, it's not like in NYC. Street parking is very limited in bigger cities, so you might need to park in expensive parking garages. Or use other methods of travel.

Only in areas with a lot of old houses (built before cars were a thing) there might be a lack of garages.

Owning/driving a car is generally very expensive in many European countries. Not like in the US where wages are rather high, but cars and gas extremely cheap, because there is no substantial tax on them.

Edit: this might not apply to southern Europe. In some southern European cities it's impossible to go by car. That's why everyone drives a scooter.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#162

Post by cycomanic »

KaiserPro wrote: post #130

I'm sorry, but the assertions that multi-exit housing blocks take up more space is frankly bollocks. Housing estates in Europe manage it by having proper balconies that can be used as exits, but also having share walk ways out the front. Not only can you have two or more exits, it also means that you can secure the building more easily as there are less doors to secure. take this estate: https://maps.app.goo.gl/RXscn…

After reading your comment I'm wondering if we have read the same article. It's pretty self evident that adding an extra staircase takes up significant space as everyone who has tried to design a floor plan will tell you. For larger buildings it's not just the area of the stairwell, but also the corridor that has to connect the 2 of them.

I can also confirm that most apartment buildings in Germany, France, Scandinavia, Austria and Italy (that I'm familiar with) have only 1 stairwell (note that's different to exists, many have at least 2 exits). From what I have seen they apartments (like the article asserts) tend to have much nicer layouts with more light.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#163

Post by oh_sigh »

Aunche wrote: post #141
oh_sigh wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a classic example used by proponents of LVT. But what is another example? Terry buys a house in a run down, blighted, poor/cheap neighborhood, and along with other neighbors, starts to revitalize it. 15 years later, the formerly blighted neighborhood has become hip, due to the work and care Terry and others put in to it. Property prices increase as rich people want to move to the cool neighborhood, and now Ter…

First of all, LVT are designed to be replacement for property taxes, which already have the problem you describe. Also, Terry isn't forced to sell to a rich person. He is a rich person. The type of people who like to live in hip neighborhoods tends to be recent graduates starting their high paying career. While they may have more income than Terry, Terry is significantly wealthier than most of them. If he really want…

They have that problem, but there are frequently programs or legislation designed to reduce that burden. Eg, >10% of Americans are (theoretically) covered by Prop 13. Other municipalities may have laws on the books limiting property tax increases to a certain percent per year. Many other places offer property tax relief programs for people with low income, or the disabled, or the elderly, or generally by increasing exemptions.

As I understand it though, you wouldn't want these programs with a LVT system, because they would just distort the market in a similar manner that it is now?

Yes, because of the property appreciation, Terry can say that on paper, he is rich-ish, but a weird kind of rich where he has nothing but a house in a nice neighborhood, and otherwise has very little money.

How does he pay off the taxes with the equity of his home? A HELOC could work, but he already can't afford the increased taxes with his income alone, so a HELOC would just delay the inevitable and based on his income he probably wouldn't qualify for one.

Or he could do a reverse mortgage, be able to pay the taxes, but put himself at a major risk of losing his home entirely if he lives long enough. Also, reverse mortgages are only available to people over 62.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#164

Post by xnx »

It would seem sensible if fire codes were something like LEED certifications, where different elements scored different points toward certification. Example: You don't need a second staircase if you have a sprinkler system. Non-flammable materials like brick and stone earn more points that wood and asphalt. etc.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#165

Post by mjmahone17 »

bluGill wrote: post #69
alexb_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with regard to single stair buildings are for things taller than 3 stories. IIRC in America 3 stories is the most common limit by far, and in Canada it's even worse with most regulations having 2 stories as the limit for a single stair complex.

It is generally understood that at 4 floors you need an elevator which is expensive. This is partially the ADA (which doesn't say this from what I can tell, but is generally understood to suggest it), and partially 4 floor is enough stairs few people would agree to walk up them.

Which ties into a second problem: the US especially requires elevators to be too large, which limits how many are built because they take up so much square footage, which drives up the cost to install.

In Spain and France you’ll find single staircase, 4 story buildings that have one meter-by-meter sized elevator. Often even as retrofits in older buildings! In NY you’ll find these too, but they’re only in pre-war (1930s and older) buildings. It would make many apartments much more accessible and desirable to live in if we could drive down the cost of elevator installations for smaller buildings.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#166

Post by crazygringo »

drcongo wrote: post #158
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about: Don't harvest and sell my data, and don't show me a bunch of popups about exactly what data you can collect on me?

That is of course the ideal, but what, you're just gonna trust them?

I don't trust a popup a single bit more than no popup.

So it's not like I trust anything either way. Get rid of the popups. Any solution needs to be legal and not involve popups.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#167

Post by advisedwang »

xnx wrote: post #164

It would seem sensible if fire codes were something like LEED certifications, where different elements scored different points toward certification. Example: You don't need a second staircase if you have a sprinkler system. Non-flammable materials like brick and stone earn more points that wood and asphalt. etc.

Fire codes aren't a point system, but they do often have "X is required if Y is missing" type rules.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#168

Post by crazygringo »

screye wrote: post #92
baq wrote: post #17

European here. I can't even put to words my embafflement upon having learnt that you US folks need two staircases.

Oddly, this is already a solved problem. NYC fire escapes are world famous. If every sub-10 floor building can have a 2nd window fire escape.... then you can have your cake and eat it too.

NYC stopped building fire escapes a long time ago. There are still tons of them, but all on older buildings.

It certainly would be interesting to see them make a comeback though.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#169

Post by cycomanic »

nineplay wrote: post #117
baq wrote: post #17

European here. I can't even put to words my embafflement upon having learnt that you US folks need two staircases.

I'm often surprised when posters identify themselves as "European" which encompasses such a broad range of cultures, biotypes, and ecosystems that it makes any comparison of the US way vs the European way virtually impossible. That said, when looking at the reasons for fire safety in the U.S., there are many factors to consider which may or may not apply in parts of Europe -- Frequency of wildfires. They are not unco…

> I'm often surprised when posters identify themselves as "European" which encompasses such a broad range of cultures, biotypes, and ecosystems that it makes any comparison of the US way vs the European way virtually impossible.

Many people in Europe do indeed identify as European. This has become more and more prevalent as people increasingly move around in Europe. I'd also argue that you are ignoring the cultural differences in the US (e.g. New Jersey vs Utah) something which I find Europeans are often guilty of.

> That said, when looking at the reasons for fire safety in the U.S., there are many factors to consider which may or may not apply in parts of Europe

> -- Frequency of wildfires. They are not uncommon in my southwest corner, so fire safety is taken very seriously

We are talking about multi (>4) story, multi family apartment buildings, how are wildfires relevant?

> -- Proximity of emergency services. It can't be assumed that the local fire department is a few minutes drive away

Again we are not talking about requirements for some cottage in the woods, these are city buildings. The whole argument is for buildings where you have space constraints.

> -- Building materials. Materials that are fire-proof are rarely earthquake proof.

Again I don't see the relevance, we are talking about a national building code, but only a tiny fraction of US cities are earthquake zones. The article also asserts that most Asian countries (which presumably includes Japan) have only one stairwell requirements.

> Any of these may or may not apply in any particular case but "embafflement" seems pretty extreme.

I actually agree if one needs to grasp for straws like these for reasons for the 2 stairwell rule, it is pretty baffling. The article actually nicely described the history and why it's outdated.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#170

Post by ponector »

erikaww wrote: post #24
ponector wrote: post #15

I have a great idea how to solve housing shortage in US: ban single family houses inside and near the city borders. Make 25-mile zone where new construction could be multi family only.

A more realistic solution is just to remove restrictions that discourage MFH in the first place (zoning height limits parking requirements lot size requirements height requirements regressive fees/taxes)

Of course it is not realistic. To reduce housing crisis mean to decrease demand, to decrease prices of already built houses. No one will vote for that. Housing situation will be only worse.
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