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Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

theguardian.com

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Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#161

Post by yunwal »

wolverine876 wrote: post #106
antisthenes wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolutely best (and most impactful) thing you can do as an individual is to _not pay the damn debt_ to the hospital. The illusion of impact by writing to your congressman is really just that, a proverbial carrot in front of the donkey of democracy.

> The illusion of impact by writing to your congressman is really just that, a proverbial carrot in front of the donkey of democracy. This is the hopelessness I'm talking about in the GP. It was edgy and clever to despair, but it's really for losers. Let's get serious; people are dying, democracy is dying; our predecessors managed to achieve great things and there's no excuse for us to sit on the sidelines and whine.

The question is what do we do about it? It sounds like you’re suggesting we can vote our issues away, but the voting and primary system is also corrupt.

The only way forward is to leverage our economic power (by forming unions or organizing a general strike). That’s the leverage we have against power, but ultimately a lot of what that looks like is lying down and doing nothing.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#162

Post by crazygringo »

wolverine876 wrote: post #84

Don't let yourself get caught up in these details. The problem is the unreformed healthcare system; these are just more symptoms of it. It's like the old, failing server at work - people say the problem is the power supply, the outdated driver, etc. - it's not; the problem is we haven't installed a new server. We all can see the US healthcare system is awful. If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.…

> EDIT: People need to stop debating whether they are powerless, and the 999 ways they are powerless, the hopelessness of powerlessness - and start posting solutions.

Well since you're the one claiming the problem is us, which is a pretty bold accusation -- what's your solution?

If you're making accusations that we're not doing enough, what are you doing then?

Very curious to hear.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#163

Post by devilbunny »

mindslight wrote: post #150
devilbunny wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because historically doctors were in private practices. I still am, as an anesthesiologist. Many of the surgeons I work with are also private. So, since neither of us is employed by the hospital, we do our own billing. If we were hospital employees, we could indeed do unified billing. That's a better analogy; your chefs are expecting to be paid by the restaurant, so it collects the bill. I am not paid by the hospital…

Your explanation doesn't seem like anything but a well polished justification for what is ultimately a dubious shakedown. Without actually consulting with a patient and agreeing upon pricing well ahead of a scheduled surgery, you have absolutely no business requesting any payment directly from them. These billing charades revolve around some utterly perverse idea that obtaining someone's identifying information someh…

> Without actually consulting with a patient and agreeing upon pricing well ahead of a scheduled surgery, you have absolutely no business requesting any payment directly from them.

Well, if you want to turn this into a rant on how incredibly backward the way things are done is, I'll agree with you that it's a terrible method. But it is the way things work. Don't believe me? Ask your insurance company. Your deductible is not payable to the insurance company; they require the billing entity to collect it themselves (and thus spread the risk onto us - they don't pay our negotiated fee, they pay the negotiated fee minus your deductible and it's up to us to get it from you).

> And you can most certainly retain your legal independence and work for multiple vendors as a subcontractor, like in any other industry.

Again, look at how health insurance in the US, as a whole, works. And, for that matter, hospitals (for- vs not-for-profit is a mostly meaningless distinction in this).

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#164

Post by forgingahead »

beaeglebeached wrote: post #136
charlie0 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you'll get the same issue as with the homeless, people from other states will come over to mooch on the better services. This has to be handled at a national level in order for it to succeed.

[flagged]

Is "treatment" really the right word? Sounds like they're just exploiting them to sell invasive, irreversible surgeries that cause even more longer-term mental health damage.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#165

Post by yunwal »

tumsfestival wrote: post #148
trynumber9 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans do dislike their politicians. They also find them corrupt and ineffectual (possibly that's better than corrupt and effective). https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/09/19/americans-di...

Clearly not enough, otherwise they'd do something about it.

I think it’ll happen soon. If it doesn’t happen soon with the increasing numbers of unions and labor strikes, it’ll happen when boomers die off and the voting demographic shifts left dramatically.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#166

Post by [deleted] »

horns4lyfe wrote: post #152
paxys wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is the majority of the Republican party and their electorate, but just saying that will get you a barrage of downvotes on HN and other similar forums. We get the system we deserve..

Well we got Democrat-led reform and it’s arguably worse.

[deleted]

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#167

Post by beaeglebeached »

forgingahead wrote: post #164
beaeglebeached wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is "treatment" really the right word? Sounds like they're just exploiting them to sell invasive, irreversible surgeries that cause even more longer-term mental health damage.

Everytime I call it something else a dogpile appears accusing me of not being a medical doctor and how dare I commit the malpractice of deciding it is not treatment. Then come varying studies, which depending on persuasion are gamed in either direction by tweaking the constraints. Easier to not have the debate.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#168

Post by wolverine876 »

crazygringo wrote: post #162
wolverine876 wrote: post #84

Don't let yourself get caught up in these details. The problem is the unreformed healthcare system; these are just more symptoms of it. It's like the old, failing server at work - people say the problem is the power supply, the outdated driver, etc. - it's not; the problem is we haven't installed a new server. We all can see the US healthcare system is awful. If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.…

> EDIT: People need to stop debating whether they are powerless, and the 999 ways they are powerless, the hopelessness of powerlessness - and start posting solutions. Well since you're the one claiming the problem is us , which is a pretty bold accusation -- what's your solution? If you're making accusations that we're not doing enough, what are you doing then? Very curious to hear.

That's a common comeback - and again, it's doing nothing, spinning wheels, talking on the sidelines. The distractions are endless, but there's only one thing to do - get in the game.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#169

Post by wolverine876 »

yunwal wrote: post #157
paxys wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is the majority of the Republican party and their electorate, but just saying that will get you a barrage of downvotes on HN and other similar forums. We get the system we deserve..

I generally vote Democrat, but there is no American political party putting serious support toward a sensible healthcare system.

It was top billing in Democrat policy for decades, from Clinton through Clinton, and Biden did some too. Top billing in Republican policy was to oppose it and undermine it - remember the endless, pointless, virtue-signaling votes during Obama's administration by Congressional Republicans to kill Obama's healthcare plan. Remember he got it through on the slimist margin, through procedural maneuver, with (no? one?) Republican votes.

Organize and get the ball rolling. What are the problems? How do we solve them? You're not a customer or a victim; you tell them what they should be doing. Don't worry, most politicians will do anything to get some votes!

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#170

Post by wolverine876 »

crazygringo wrote: post #122
wolverine876 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. You're helpless. Is that what you want to hear? Is that what you say at work? Is that what you tell your kids when they have a problem? Take step back - this response is beneath us; it's making ourselves victims. I could spell it out concretely, but the problem is the approach, the attitude, that talking like helpless victims is somehow ok. It's completely irresponsible - an abdication of our responsibi…

> I could spell it out concretely Well please do then. There are lots of people with drive on the Democrat side -- look at everything Bernie inspired, for example. There's ideas and drive aplenty. Look at the optimism that propelled Obama into office. And then look at how little he was able to accomplish, compared with what he hoped to. Look at how he discovered that Republicans wouldn't work with him, no matter how…

The only advice is: Get up and start working, start thinking and focusing on solving problems, start organizing and winning. Any leader, any manager, anyone with life experience can tell you: If I do it for you, then nothing has changed.

Yes, Republican Party political tactics - pretty consistent since at least 2000 - have been effective. Why would they stop until someone stops them? Did you think those power-brokers, the vested interests, would make it easy? That is the nature of politics. It's not an exception; that's life; the enemy will fight.

FWIW, Obama avoided confrontation; he never confronted them and stopped them. Same with Hillary Clinton, same with Biden, same with most of the Dem congressional leaders. Why would anyone, except the most brain-dead or blind, follow leaders who won't even stand up for themselves, who exhibit cowardice when confronted with even the most vile, absurd foes?

And against them, you have the truth, good faith, good health and finances and everything else on your side. It couldn't be easier, in may respects.

I've said way more than enough. It's really an absurd situation. Stop talking to me and get to work.

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