reminds me of how stress, especially from exercise is good for you
Stress is like cholesterol. There are good types and bad types.
Cells across the body talk to each other about aging
161–170 of 173 posts
Re: Cells across the body talk to each other about aging
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the common notion is that the survival of the individual is exactly what natural selection is selecting for. However, it seems to me its more selecting for its own particular configuration of genes, that essentially select for a signature of themself. Within a species the configuration between individuals is generally different enough to not ellicit altruistic behaviour. In most animals, the 50% kinship gene…
> I think the common notion is that the survival of the individual is exactly what natural selection is selecting for. when we reproduce, do we make copies of ourselves? no we don't. It's not survival of individuals. Read the Selfish Gene and it will change your thinking. You as an individual are a piece of clothing for your genes. Your genes reproduce, you don't.
In the future, you should read full comments before you respond.
I explicitly stated what i thought as contrary to the "survival of individuals".
Not only have I read the selfish gene, but I included 3 facts from the book in my comment...
Re: Cells across the body talk to each other about aging
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep. The immune system is watching for that and killing you off, if you’re being a social reject. That works for any social animal. Plus for humans there’s also a suicide trick.
Not sure if you're being facetious or not, but it's not the immune system killing you off. That said, you are less likely to reproduce successfully if you are 'a social reject'. You will meet fewer potential mates, fewer of those will be willing to reproduce with you, etc. Whatever it was that made you a social reject, if it's something you can pass on either through nature or nuture, is less likely to be passed on.
I believe he is refering to the relationship between stress and autoimmune disease, which is responsible for a large majority of the heart disease, cancer, and other deaths.
source: Robert Sapolsky, Zebras Dont Get Ulcers
Re: Cells across the body talk to each other about aging
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> Your brain at 90 is mostly useless even if you're not afflicted with a serious condition. You can't learn and adapt You are factually incorrect. You can, in fact, learn and adapt in your 90s. Sometimes (not always) the brain has degraded and can't do so as well , but that's a problem we should work to fix. And there is some evidence to suggest that cause and effect go in both directions there: if you keep learning…
I said "at 90 you can't learn and adapt like you could in your 20s".
You chose to cut off my quote so it sounds like I said something else, and argue with the strawman you created.
This alone means it's pointless discussing anything with you, as there's no basic intellectual honesty here.
If your claim is that most people at 90 are as intellectually flexible and capable as 20 year old people, that's a rather drastic deviation from basic facts of reality. Another reason it's pointless discussing anything with you.
"We should fix this"... yeah ok, fix it. We're not discussing that, but just mechanically extending days of life. Those two things are not the same thing.
While you're "fixing this" (mental performance at 90) you'll find entropy is rather unforgivable, especially for cells which can't divide so you'll have to essentially completely redo our biology in order to "fix this". Good luck.
Re: Cells across the body talk to each other about aging
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
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You sound young. Old folks that are still competitive are a force to be reckoned with. They are rare in part because people die, but also the things people compete over feel less important with age.
I'm not young. It's simply that my position is informed by biology, cybernetics and study of evolution, rather than fear of death. And this collective "we'll live forever" pat on the back we give each other is just pathetic TBH, feels very reminiscent to the "healthy at every weight" etc. movements, which seek to build a virtual reality that shields us from basic physiological facts.
Entropy is one of the most relentless forces in the universe. If we could so casually turn it around, this world would be unrecognizable.
Re: Cells across the body talk to each other about aging
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
All living things have at least one cell, but they do not all operate in the same way. There’s possibility that worm cells and human cells behave similarly in this, but it’s also fully possible they behave in very dissimilar ways.
Which is why this is interesting! I just wanted to combat the whole "this isn't relevant to humans" pushback. There's potential value here.
nobody said "this isn't relevant to humans"
The article is written in such a way that you think it is about human cells until you get fairly far into it.
Re: Cells across the body talk to each other about aging
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> People talking about eternal life disgust me. It's narcissism or infantilism in disguise. I suspect your disgust has prevented you from actually learning what the positions of these people even are. I mean, we've had the story of "aging without dying is bad" since the ancient Greeks and Tithonus, and even for them it was a tragic mistake to forget to ask for the "no more aging please I'm fine at XYZ years" part.
No I see very frequently what "these people" have as a position, you can see it all over this thread. There's no such thing as "no aging". Age is a function of time, you can't stop time. You can hold back on the superficial traits of age, but a human is designed with an expiration date. You can stretch it, you can also cut it short, but you won't get very different productivity in the end.
But most of all. You're not special. I'm not special. Life is not special in each instance. What's special is the system, the collective result of the relentless loop of selection, evolution, adaptation.
Trying to stop death is basically to stop the loop that is life. To stop death is to enforce death. I've seen few comprehend this. You see, you're linked to your environment. Cultural, physical, what have you. As you grasp to stay the same (alive) and the environment changes, you'll naturally fight to hold back the environment from changing. Which will destroy the environment for the next generations.
Hence trying to stop death, causes death. It's not poetic or vague notion. But quite literal.
Re: Cells across the body talk to each other about aging
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
You sound young. Old folks that are still competitive are a force to be reckoned with. They are rare in part because people die, but also the things people compete over feel less important with age.
I'm not young. It's simply that my position is informed by biology, cybernetics and study of evolution, rather than fear of death. And this collective "we'll live forever" pat on the back we give each other is just pathetic TBH, feels very reminiscent to the "healthy at every weight" etc. movements, which seek to build a virtual reality that shields us from basic physiological facts. Entropy is one of the most relent…
Have you ever tried to have a real conversation with someone that old? And I don't mean whatever this cryptic rant is, but an actual attempt at connection between adults.
Re: Cells across the body talk to each other about aging
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
> People talking about eternal life disgust me. It's narcissism or infantilism in disguise. I suspect your disgust has prevented you from actually learning what the positions of these people even are. I mean, we've had the story of "aging without dying is bad" since the ancient Greeks and Tithonus, and even for them it was a tragic mistake to forget to ask for the "no more aging please I'm fine at XYZ years" part.
No I see very frequently what "these people" have as a position, you can see it all over this thread. There's no such thing as "no aging". Age is a function of time, you can't stop time. You can hold back on the superficial traits of age, but a human is designed with an expiration date. You can stretch it, you can also cut it short, but you won't get very different productivity in the end. But most of all. You're not…
> There's no such thing as "no aging".
Yeah there is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negligible_senescence
> To stop death is to enforce death.
No. To stop absolutely all change is to enforce death. Aging is just one type of change amongst many that a person can experience.
You may be unable to change in any way but aging, but me?
I may mourn for the "meadow" that I saw being build when I was in infant school being turned into another housing estate when I was an adult, but I know that change is part of life.
I moved country in my mid 30s. I've visited 21 nation states, and seen how different lives can be, and tried learning far too many natural languages.
I'm a furry, so if we solve all the questions in biology (which is probably much harder than SENS, but SENS would give me time to wait), I'll see if being an actual anthropomorphic wolf suits me.
I've not found the right person to start a family with yet, but I'd like to, and I hear parenthood also changes people.
> As you grasp to stay the same (alive) and the environment changes, you'll naturally fight to hold back the environment from changing. Which will destroy the environment for the next generations.
Non sequitur.
Even the first part in isolation, "naturally" doesn't really apply any more, even if for whatever reason a biologically[0] 20-year-old mind with a century of experience is as inflexible as a natural century-old mind, rather than as flexible and open to novelty as a natural 20-year-old.
Both sentences together is even worse, making you absolutely as poetic as you say you're not.
[0] in this sense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomarkers_of_aging
Re: Cells across the body talk to each other about aging
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
No I see very frequently what "these people" have as a position, you can see it all over this thread. There's no such thing as "no aging". Age is a function of time, you can't stop time. You can hold back on the superficial traits of age, but a human is designed with an expiration date. You can stretch it, you can also cut it short, but you won't get very different productivity in the end. But most of all. You're not…
> There's no such thing as "no aging". Yeah there is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negligible_senescence > To stop death is to enforce death. No. To stop absolutely all change is to enforce death. Aging is just one type of change amongst many that a person can experience. You may be unable to change in any way but aging, but me? I may mourn for the "meadow" that I saw being build when I was in infant school being tu…
Turtles age. I find it absurd I need to state the obvious. They age and die. They live longer because of their slow metabolism and... well they don't do much.
You'll find it curious I did think about turtles when writing the comment you're responding to. Can you spot the part where I thought about turtles? Something about total productive life? You know, sitting idle for months on end and staring at one point is not exactly what you envisage in your dreams of 150 year old humans or are you? If you want to see turtle-men, visit any nursery home, unfortunately. It's not a happy existence.
Anyway what am I doing, explaining basics to someone who just told me they're "a furry". As I noted people who dream of immortality are either narcissists, or infantile, and I'm sorry to be blunt, but describing yourself as "a furry" strikes me as a combo of both.
This is not a personal attack, but our beliefs shape our opinions, and certain extreme beliefs very much so. You can believe whatever you want to believe, beliefs are free (and most of them among humans are quite mediocre and laughable), but don't expect me to be convinced or entertain your notions.