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Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

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Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#161

Post by justrealist »

_ph_ wrote: post #81
justrealist wrote: post #3

Tuna (horrific overfishing) and octopus (intelligence) are the two animals I won't eat.

Another important candidate are shark fins. Not only are sharks of many kinds endangered, cutting of their fins and tossing the still living shark back in the ocean is especially cruel and wasteful. But considering that most fish species are endangered and basically all of them are contaminated by plastic, there is good reason to avoid seafood altogether. Unless perhaps if you know that it has been fished sustainably…

Ok sure I just mean of foods I might normally eat in normal life. I've never even had the option of declining shark fin soup.

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#163

Post by maxglute »

galdosdi wrote: post #156
rgbrenner wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read that article again closer, paying attention to separate the examples of illegal behavior from simply fishing. "Much of what China does, however, is legal — or, on the open seas at least, largely unregulated." -- quote from your link. Fishing "right up to the exclusive economic zone", means you're in international waters and can fish freely. They continue their activities because there are no legal means to stop…

Aren't there international treaties regulating fishing in international waters? I know they exist but not sure if they're weak and vague. That is what we need but not realistic to happen in today's geopolitical climate

High seas is global commons. Any meaningful regulation / quota for potential enforcement is going to be on per capita basis (like emissions), in which case PRC significantly _underfishes_ relative to other top IUU violators. PRC would need to have distant fishing fleet of 60,000-120,000, or 20-40x times larger than current (3000-6000) to match per capita fleet of Taiwan (2000). Even if you take high end estimate of PRC DWF at 16000 that motivated actors use to bundle PRC fishing in their near shores (east/south seas, most of which are maritime militia that doesn't actually fish), they would still be "entitled" to 4x current fleet size. The reality is PRC has 20% of worlds population and limited EEZs so they're going to have to fish more in high seas / international waters for consumption and commerce. Unless one thinks PRC citizens aren't entitled to seafood or PRC fishers aren't entitled to a living.

Top fishing countries aren't going to agree to that (most of whom are US allies that media doesn't report on despite having comparable suspicious activities in same distant regions PRC operates in). The only reason PRC fishing got media play / propaganda push in the last few years is US wanted to beef up influence of pacific nations playing up PRC fishing so they can drive the issue to forward deploy coast guard and build influence. It's geopolitical lawfare, and it's unlikely to do anything substantive because any agreement by PRC on curtailing distant fishing would be on per capita basis which would first involve everyone else (JP,SKR,TW etc) to essentially kill their entire fishing industry before PRC would even need to make any cuts. Someone else pointed out the SUV analogy when it comes to global warmning which is apt.

E: some embarassing math mistakes

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#164

Post by actionfromafar »

pphysch wrote: post #102
tw04 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That is something that can be done at a local level without global cooperation. You're assuming some foreign operator won't come to your local waters to illegally fish. China has shown they will fish literally anywhere they can get away with it. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/26/world/asia/ch...

I know China-bashing is popular on this website, but a quite search of market data reveals that China isn't even in the top 10 of tuna producers NOR consumers. Basic economics would suggest that a country with low nominal GDP/capita would not be the final destination for a global commodity (with relatively high production cost) like deep sea fish. Given that your production site is in the Pacific Ocean, why would you…

Not tuna, but China sends fishing boats for other kinds of fish to South America.

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#165

Post by triceratops »

wkat4242 wrote: post #14
lgkk wrote: post #4

As someone who eats almost exclusively vegan I think it would be great as the whole world faces these issues, we see lots of switches to eating tofu or plant based foods. Way cheaper. Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. And far healthier since most vegans and vegetarians live long and healthy lives compared to other groups. Poke tastes great with tofu btw. We shouldn’t destroy the oceans. Anyway I’m bracing for the inevi…

> Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. Nah you can eat just as bad vegan food. Most vegan burgers are just fat patties much worse than those made of lean beef. As with any type of food it depends on the choices you make within the class and the amount of it. I think the reason vegans and vegetarians are healthier is mainly because they are more conscious of what they're eating in the first place. And depending on where yo…

Fortunately most people don't eat burgers - vegan or beef - every day. A bowl of sugar is also vegan and also terrible for your health. Most people don't eat that either.

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#166

Post by coredog64 »

galdosdi wrote: post #156
rgbrenner wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read that article again closer, paying attention to separate the examples of illegal behavior from simply fishing. "Much of what China does, however, is legal — or, on the open seas at least, largely unregulated." -- quote from your link. Fishing "right up to the exclusive economic zone", means you're in international waters and can fish freely. They continue their activities because there are no legal means to stop…

Aren't there international treaties regulating fishing in international waters? I know they exist but not sure if they're weak and vague. That is what we need but not realistic to happen in today's geopolitical climate

My recollection of how this works in the Pacific is that you won’t be eligible to buy fishing days in an EEZ if you do this.

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#167

Post by triceratops »

HWR_14 wrote: post #133
epolanski wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/155982761142576... This is an extensive review of many papers from 10 years ago, most data agrees that vegetarian diet is considerably healthier. More modern literature merely adds that if you go full vegan you need to eat quite some if you want to preserve lean mass.

I clicked on a few at random. I saw vegetarianism "with comprehensive lifestyle changes" in one case. "Well-planned" vegan meals compared to a standard (less planned) omnivore diet in another. Obviously, physically active vegetarians who carefully consider their diet (and eat specifically balanced non-ultraprocessed food) compares well to 100% fast food eating couch potatoes. Also obviously, it's far easier to have a…

> physically active vegetarians who carefully consider their diet

Or copy-paste vegetarian culinary traditions. They have worked out most of the dietary kinks.

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#168

Post by triceratops »

erichmond wrote: post #47
lgkk wrote: post #4

As someone who eats almost exclusively vegan I think it would be great as the whole world faces these issues, we see lots of switches to eating tofu or plant based foods. Way cheaper. Can’t get so fat and unhealthy. And far healthier since most vegans and vegetarians live long and healthy lives compared to other groups. Poke tastes great with tofu btw. We shouldn’t destroy the oceans. Anyway I’m bracing for the inevi…

To be fair, you set yourself up for the downvote. There is no science to backup the vegan diet is "far healthier". Also, if the entire world stopped eating meat, we'd have a series of other problems to deal with. Just make intellectually honest arguments and try and win that way. It's a much better way to "convert" people to your cause.

What problems do you think would result? The only ones I can think of are job losses in agriculture and healthcare. And the entire world wouldn't stop eating meat anyway so it's a made up problem.

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#169

Post by jandrewrogers »

fulladder wrote: post #159
adrianN wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if they are armed and you’re willing to go to war over fish.

No, this is overblown. The drones just travel around the ocean scanning for illegal fishing. When they detect it, they determine who owns the vessel and send them a bill for fines. People respond to fines.

People are free to ignore the fine. The country they live in won't enforce it, especially since the illegal fishing is often occurring in another country's waters. In many cases, it is tacitly encouraged by the home country.

We can already detect illegal fishing, that's not a limitation. Illegal fishing fleets greatly out-scale the ability of naval forces to seize them, so the occasional seizure is just a cost of doing business, like with illegal drugs. There is little that will be effective at stopping illegal fishing short of using naval forces to sink them (which would scale), and that isn't going to happen.

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#170

Post by adrian_b »

forward1 wrote: post #58
HWR_14 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We shouldn’t destroy the oceans. That's why this isn't great. Because this is not "we went vegan to save the oceans". It is "the oceans look like they are already destroyed". Besides that, I haven't seen any studies that show a vegan or vegetarian diet makes someone healthier.

> Besides that, I haven't seen any studies that show a vegan or vegetarian diet makes someone healthier. You must not have looked. Almost all (except for commercially funded) studies prove plant-based diets are much healthier; it's literally the scientific consensus in nutrition.

Plant-based diets are much healthier, but only for those who are careful to also take a relatively large number of supplements containing the minerals that do not exist in plants or which exist in too small quantities (iodine, selenium, calcium) and the vitamins, fatty acids and amino-acid derivatives that do not exist in plants and which either are not made by humans, or are made in insufficient quantities, especially at old age and especially in males (vitamins B12, D3, K2, DHA, EPA, creatine, taurine, choline).

Otherwise, there are plenty of studies that show that those vegans who neglect to take appropriate supplements have various health problems, e.g. osteoporosis or anemia.

I also have heard of many (and I know personally someone) who were forced to abandon the vegan diet after some time due to health problems, but it is very likely that all such problems have been caused by not taking a complete set of supplements, because most have heard only about B12, and that is not the only substance missing from plants.

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