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Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

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Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#161
post #4

Getting ghosted 95% of the time has been the default for decades.

I had my first interview for a faculty job in 2001. I sent a couple of emails to find out where they are in the hiring process. Still waiting for a response.

Maybe it's time to send one more email? ;D

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#162
Here is a truly stupid idea: What if you could buy a job interview. You pay say 100 bucks, you get the deluxe tour, all the attention and dedication you deserve, a nice letter highlighting your qualities. Make the process into a real product that is worth buying.

I've never experienced it and I don't know if they still do it but I hear in Belgium they do a lot of things over dinner. If nothing useful comes out of it you split the bill.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#163

One of my top lessons I've learned doing successful startups: 1. Recruiting is the #1 job of any startup CEO, and the #1 determiner of corporate success. 2. Up market, down market, side market, it doesn't matter: You will get better employees if you treat candidates with respect and you will be more competitive. 3. It's a lot of work for the 95% of clowns out there you interview, and there's a push towards automated…

Almost every place I’ve worked (early at startups later at megacorps) there were never enough recruiting resources. So eventually I just got my own recruiter account on LinkedIn and started using my knowledge of the industry and state of hiring to make my own search queries and reached out directly. I had an incredible conversion rate - the senior person actually hiring saying “hey you look like you could fit in here…

My experience in a large corp is that whenever we can hire, we never have any issue finding very good candidates. The difficulty is getting approval from HR and management to hire externally.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#164

Here is a truly stupid idea: What if you could buy a job interview. You pay say 100 bucks, you get the deluxe tour, all the attention and dedication you deserve, a nice letter highlighting your qualities. Make the process into a real product that is worth buying. I've never experienced it and I don't know if they still do it but I hear in Belgium they do a lot of things over dinner. If nothing useful comes out of it…

Exactly what an already exploitative labor market needs: paid interviews!

I can't see a single way this could go wrong.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In professional sports you are selecting one of the few hundred or thousand best people in the world. Its not even remotely the same impact.

Every successful athletic team makes player scouting and development a core function, not only the elite levels. In the US that means minor league baseball teams, university teams from volleyball and fencing, to football and basketball. Pro cycling teams that pay almost nothing and aren't competitive world wide.. It's not just the elite teams that make this top priority. They ALL know that the most driven talented pl…

Most of your examples are talent pipelines for the top leagues. Regardless I think you made my point for me at the end:

> They ALL know that the most driven talented players they can get at their level is what will make them win.

This is not how normal employment works. Sports are competitive by nature so the difference between a 60th percentile player and the best player is the difference between winning and losing. But for most businesses, the difference between the best frontend developer and the 60th percentile frontend developer is close to zero.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#166
post #33

This is a pet peeve of mine. In the olden days, pre-digital, companies would send you a proper letter back together with your application documents so you could possibly reuse them. That was actually a little work for them to do! These days, sending an effing canned email to all applicants that didn't get hired costs a company next to nothing, and still ghosting happens. It's indecent.

I recall being taken aback to receive a dead tree rejection letter in the mid 2000s (the only interaction had been me emailing my CV)

The recruiters that meet you in person, talk a big game and then complete silence annoy/confuse me the most - possibly they get commissions for signups?

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#167
post #19

The new normal? This has been the case for years for almost all job applications. Maybe if you're lucky and the company has put you through like 4 rounds of interviews you might get feedback, but the general rule seems to be that useful feedback for an interview is the exception rather than the norm. And heck, even that isn't something you can rely on. I've had a fair few interviews get about 80% of the way through t…

The article is specifically talking about ghosting that happens after an interview.

That's also rather common. Happened to me with one of the jobs I was interviewing at in the early days of the pandemic, and a few more in the years before that. Sometimes it even gets to like, a telephone interview, take home test and 2 live interviews, and they still ghost you.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Detailed "here's why you suck" feedback, sure, but just a "no" would be more professional than this emotionally immature "ghosting" thing.

This isn't personal on their part. It might be a bit rude but if you're going into the corporate world, get used to that. Just move on, if you're sitting there stewing about getting "ghosted", you can be sure they are not. I don't think it would bother me any more than getting a templated, cliche rejection letter.

It's less about the feelings going around, and more that the hiring committee managed to meet, decided against a candidate, and then the recruiter can't be bothered to give a candidate a canned "no"? What does a recruiter do? Doom scroll on Linkedin for $70k/yr?

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every successful athletic team makes player scouting and development a core function, not only the elite levels. In the US that means minor league baseball teams, university teams from volleyball and fencing, to football and basketball. Pro cycling teams that pay almost nothing and aren't competitive world wide.. It's not just the elite teams that make this top priority. They ALL know that the most driven talented pl…

Most of your examples are talent pipelines for the top leagues. Regardless I think you made my point for me at the end: > They ALL know that the most driven talented players they can get at their level is what will make them win. This is not how normal employment works. Sports are competitive by nature so the difference between a 60th percentile player and the best player is the difference between winning and losing.…

The difference is being Stripe where part of the reason they won was that they are considered extremely excellent at developer experience and technical execution. Or Netflix where they beat all of the legacy companies to a great platform doing something no one had done before, and retained the advantage to the point where they seem like they're going to make it through the die off of streaming platforms.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a rocket startup. 1/3 ex SpaceX. 1/3 ex Google/Facebook. I interviewed a guy and asked him, essentially, "find the biggest number in a 2D array". This guy spent half an hour struggling because he "wasn't sure how to look through the grid in a circle pattern". You'd be incredibly surprised who gets interviews.

> "wasn't sure how to look through the grid in a circle pattern" Now I am curious to know whether I am too dense to get it or if the candidate was just that off the mark. Is circle pattern sorta like iterating through a 2d array like a spiral (i.e., outer layer of the 2d-shape first, then one deeper, etc.)? And if yes, why would that ever be useful for just searching for a specific value in a 2d array? I get how it c…

Most day-to-day coding is simple and boring. Your interview questions should be, too. I've interviewed 100's of candidates over the years. Many of them had trouble writing a couple of for loops. This was for a somewhat similar problem. I would stress "we don't need an optimal solution, we just need a working solution."
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