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Mozilla 2023 annual report: CEO pay skyrockets, Firefox market share nosedives

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Re: Mozilla 2023 annual report: CEO pay skyrockets, Firefox market share nosedives

#161

Post by yumraj »

I believe the fault lies at the board. They are the ones who approve compensation for the CEO. The problem is it’s unclear to me how competent/independent the members of the board are. I don’t see any face I recognize, but that obviously means nothing. Do people know if there are any good people on the board?

The best option would be for someone to fork Firefox and perhaps get it sponsored by Apache foundation. Then we can write it off.

Firefox is my daily browser across multiple platforms, and I worry for its future.

Re: Mozilla 2023 annual report: CEO pay skyrockets, Firefox market share nosedives

#162

Post by toomuchtodo »

lupusreal wrote: post #152
toomuchtodo wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developing and operating open technology is political advocacy. Technology and its implementation is simply the expression of the ideology, rights, etc. Leadership choices, as well as their efficacy and compensation is still an important discussion.

> Developing and operating open technology is political advocacy. That's fine, they should leave it at that and do it the best they can because that is presumably their competency. But they can't help themselves and insist on engaging various other political endeavors which they just aren't good at but probably sounds good when they brag about it to their friends at dinner parties. Like operating 'online spaces' for…

Agreed! This is what governance and oversight is for!

Re: Mozilla 2023 annual report: CEO pay skyrockets, Firefox market share nosedives

#163

Post by sgift »

ForkMeOnTinder wrote: post #141
bakugo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>that it’s diversifying itself away from Firefox And Firefox is their only worthwhile product, so moving away from Firefox means they're dying.

I don't know what I'd do if Firefox died. Maybe it's time Firefox starts diversifying itself away from Mozilla.

And with which business model? That's the elephant in the room here. If it's only about unpaid developers, Firefox already has these currently in addition to the Mozilla employees, but if it wants to stay relevant it needs paid developers working on it full-time.

Re: Mozilla 2023 annual report: CEO pay skyrockets, Firefox market share nosedives

#164

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

Riverheart wrote: post #109
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use FF is my daily driver for home stuff; work in chrome/edge. When I see things that are wrong, I point them out. We can champion FF for the good things it does and absolutely we can bash CxO club for slowly running it to the ground. Not accurate, this is likely one of the few ways we can exert some minimal level of influence over this. And besides, what did not complaining ever achieve?

No offense but how is the CxO club running it into the ground exactly? By not being on the default browser on their operating system? By not marketing it on their world used search engine? The community was the biggest factor Mozilla had in its favor and the community jumped to Chrome and here we are. It’s nice that you still use FF but their market share makes it clear that you and I are exceptions.

None taken. I am too old to care too much. From my perspective, what will be, will be.

That said, you answer your own question with the very next sentence:

I think you would agree that even with hyperbole of two people using FF, its management is not doing a great job ( euphemism ).

Re: Mozilla 2023 annual report: CEO pay skyrockets, Firefox market share nosedives

#165

Post by freedomben »

rglullis wrote: post #58
freedomben wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Importantly, that was also the reason that Brendan Eich used Chromium as a base for Brave, rather than Firefox. Had that even not occurred, we might be in a position where more than one organization had a business interest is Firefox, which would be a complete game changer.

I really doubt that is true. Speaking from the experience of working in a project that tried to build "enterprise Chrome OS, but based on Firefox instead", I can tell you that Firefox is still a lot harder to fork and customize than Chromium is.

thanks, I'm sure there were more factors involved than just the firing, so that would make a lot of sense.

Given your experience, If one were to fork Firefox entirely from Mozilla, very loosely, if one were a non-profit dedicated to just the browser and not trying to build a diversified company around it, what type of funding do you think an org would need to keep up with web technology changes and build a foundational engineering team?

Re: Mozilla 2023 annual report: CEO pay skyrockets, Firefox market share nosedives

#168

Post by echelon »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #121
PedroBatista wrote: post #14

This Mozilla "situation" comes up here from time to time, unfortunately as a long time Firefox user all I have to say is: Mitchell Baker and their clique will only leave when Mozilla is completely dead and even by that time she'll retire and will make a wonderful post about her "legacy" in opensource and the Web. I will not go further because it will turn into an all-bashing post, but Mozilla ( as you like to think o…

I’ve lead those threads in the past with hopes that someone would give a glimmer of hope Honestly, this news/post made me lose the final shred of hope I had. :/

The best thing we can do for the web at this point is talk to our politicians about the incredible power that Google and Apple wield. They either need to be split up, or their platforms entirely opened up to competition via standardization [1], first class third-party support [2], no more preferential dogfooding [3], and no more ad sales protection rackets [4].

[1] Google no longer unilaterally pulls on web standards. Google and Apple adopt a shared, first-class standard for native app development. Web gets "as native" APIs.

[2] No requirement of app store for distribution. Web installs and web as native. No scare walls or hidden-in-the-settings feature flags. The browser runtimes have full extension support with no removal of hooks necessary for eg. adblocking.

[3] First party apps are not defaults, not preinstalled, and more importantly, cannot re-assert themselves as defaults.

[4] If someone searches for your company or product by name, or a 1 edit distance variation, competitor ads can't show up before your website or app.

Re: Mozilla 2023 annual report: CEO pay skyrockets, Firefox market share nosedives

#169

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

Riverheart wrote: post #137
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. I am willing to explore it a little further. Does one become a better person simply by staying quiet?

You could try being supportive instead. But hey, the current strategy has worked out so well thus far, please continue until the market share reaches 0. Mitchell really seems to care about these comments. Oh wait, she probably doesn’t read HN does she? Oh, but the Firefox devs probably do. Well I’m sure they’re just as moved and powerful enough to affect the kind of change you want to see in the organization.

I am supportive. Without me Mozilla, Mitchell and devs would think it is all sunshine and puppies. If anything, being supportive at any costs leads to scenarios such as the current one.

Re: Mozilla 2023 annual report: CEO pay skyrockets, Firefox market share nosedives

#170

Post by Riverheart »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #87
Riverheart wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly these kinds of posts are tiresome and unhelpful. Yes, Mozilla is different now, yes the CEO makes too much money but if more people used their browser more they might invest more in it in instead of seeing it as a money sink to satisfy people who can’t be satisfied. Seriously, Mozilla cant win. A large voice of people constantly scold Mozilla for anything it does. We’ve heard from Firefox devs on how this ba…

> if more people used their browser more they might invest more in it Let me donate to support Firefox. Firefox, only. Hell, she can even skim off the top for her pay. They don’t do this because it would trash the gravy train. So Firefox is held hostage to support a litany of nonsense that lets them travel to conferences to speak about AI.

Okay, so what is complaining achieving here since you already acknowledge they won’t let you donate to Firefox directly?

I’m not crazy about it either but I don’t lose sleep over it. It’s a browser and management could be better. I know it’s a touchy subject and people may not like to hear it but until I’m downvoted into oblivion I’m going to say this discussion is not worth rehashing time and time again.

The donation suggestion is years old at this point. There is nothing new in this thread.

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