Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: I salute everyone on call/working support through the holidays

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 207 posts

Re: Tell HN: I salute everyone on call/working support through the holidays

#161

Post by ZeroSolstice »

bertil wrote: post #25

Always be kind, and say it’s your fault. If you don’t do it for the sake of the person you are asking for help, do it because it works better. That’s the most practical advice [0] ever given by Hans Rosling [1], the Fact master himself: > In fact, I have the secret to how to get the best help immediately from any customer service, like the phone company or the bank or anything. I have the best line, it always works.…

I'm going to be a bit pedantic and say fault and mistake are not equal in the message they convey. Hans says he has 'made a mistake' which is not the same as saying 'I'm at fault.' In the end it might be proven that you are at fault but until then all you know is that something went wrong, isn't working, etc.

Re: Tell HN: I salute everyone on call/working support through the holidays

#162

Post by mcv »

tetha wrote: post #12

Yeah, we discourage production changes starting first or second december week, and start freezing changes third december week until it's frozen solid fourth december week until second week of january. December tends to be hell for our customers, so stability should be a priority there. And honestly, no one wants to work on holidays. So lets just wrap everything starting in december, maybe use the third week for some…

Our customer demands changes for December 1 and for January 1, which sounds like a terrible idea. Fortunately, for legal reasons we don't handle deployment but they do, so it's up to them to decide when to put our changes in production.

Re: Tell HN: I salute everyone on call/working support through the holidays

#163

Post by vasco »

davedx wrote: post #154
chunkymilk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Always be kind, and say it’s your fault. I do this with internal teams at work. I've found approaching other teams with issues with their library/framework in a "this could be our mistake" manner really helps in keeping them from getting defensive and stonewalling.

Whatever happened to honesty? Sure, be kind, but don’t bullshit people. My personal and professional tolerance for bullshit is very low these days because there’s so much of it.

Yeah because a bunch of people will read this and instead of realising this means their state of mind should be one of humbleness and respect for who is going to help you, and that's why you lead with "hey I made a mistake", they'll still feel like other people messed up and are dumb and an obstacle to whatever they need to do but will add "I made a mistake" as a first sentence "life hack". Usually you can tell if someone means it based on how they write or say the rest of what they need though.

Re: Tell HN: I salute everyone on call/working support through the holidays

#164

Post by dayjaby »

jeffhuys wrote: post #146
wintogreen74 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying, "I'm sorry; I've made a mistake" is the killer disarming technique for even the most emotional conflict. Not sure if it's our pride or fear of liability but western culture is very hesitant to say "sorry" - other than the fake one "I'm sorry if anyone interpreted my actions|remarks|words as ..." - that doesn't count.

Do NOT do this too much, though. I did this in my last relationship and it turned into resentment from me, while she walked all over me, knowing I would say sorry for everything. It wasn’t her fault, I should’ve protected my values more, but this is a slippery slope. However, my next partner in my opinion should take this and say something like “no, this is not your fault. Let’s work on it”. It could go both ways. I…

Admitting weakness gets exploited very easily by people.

Me: Sorry, I forgot about some details about the stuff I was working on last month.

Him: Your memory is so bad. I can literally remember all the details of the last 6 months. Try to become more like me.

Re: Tell HN: I salute everyone on call/working support through the holidays

#165

Post by mrweasel »

bertil wrote: post #25

Always be kind, and say it’s your fault. If you don’t do it for the sake of the person you are asking for help, do it because it works better. That’s the most practical advice [0] ever given by Hans Rosling [1], the Fact master himself: > In fact, I have the secret to how to get the best help immediately from any customer service, like the phone company or the bank or anything. I have the best line, it always works.…

One habit I picked up from a previous job was that if something is negative then it's always "I", if it's good, it's the team, "we". So "I failed to meet our deadline", "We successfully delivered the project on time and within budget".

It basically helps move things forward, blame has been allocated, how do we move on from here, but this only works if you have a health work environment.

This wasn't a company policy or anything like that, it was just how we talked and supported each other.

Re: Tell HN: I salute everyone on call/working support through the holidays

#166

Post by theonething »

wintogreen74 wrote: post #76
chunkymilk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Always be kind, and say it’s your fault. I do this with internal teams at work. I've found approaching other teams with issues with their library/framework in a "this could be our mistake" manner really helps in keeping them from getting defensive and stonewalling.

Saying, "I'm sorry; I've made a mistake" is the killer disarming technique for even the most emotional conflict. Not sure if it's our pride or fear of liability but western culture is very hesitant to say "sorry" - other than the fake one "I'm sorry if anyone interpreted my actions|remarks|words as ..." - that doesn't count.

> but western culture is very hesitant to say "sorry"

This is very wrong. Eastern/Asian culture with its obsession with saving face is the culture where saying sorry is anathema.

Re: Tell HN: I salute everyone on call/working support through the holidays

#167

Post by 15457345234 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #3

Yes, absolutely thanks to all who keep our world running when no one is looking. To keep the yule log on Youtube, to keep our christmas tree lights on, to keep a fresh glass of water from the tap, warm natural gas to keep the freezing cold outside etc. Thank you for keeping society ticking away :)

You ever read something and it's just like... yeah, I'm absolutely done with interacting with this userbase forever?

Yeah

Re: Tell HN: I salute everyone on call/working support through the holidays

#168

Post by hhsectech »

bertil wrote: post #25

Always be kind, and say it’s your fault. If you don’t do it for the sake of the person you are asking for help, do it because it works better. That’s the most practical advice [0] ever given by Hans Rosling [1], the Fact master himself: > In fact, I have the secret to how to get the best help immediately from any customer service, like the phone company or the bank or anything. I have the best line, it always works.…

"Hi Hans Rosling..."

ticks the 'potential liability' box

"How can I help you?"

Re: Tell HN: I salute everyone on call/working support through the holidays

#169

Post by spicymaki »

grouseway wrote: post #150
wintogreen74 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying, "I'm sorry; I've made a mistake" is the killer disarming technique for even the most emotional conflict. Not sure if it's our pride or fear of liability but western culture is very hesitant to say "sorry" - other than the fake one "I'm sorry if anyone interpreted my actions|remarks|words as ..." - that doesn't count.

I know this is a tangent, but if anything, western culture is better about this. We're not an "honor" culture, and we don't warp family relationships to "save face". People are not even allowed to apologize in some other cultures because it brings shame on their family/group. To give a really grotesque example, there is an country run by autocrats that carelessly unleashed a plague on the world because they prioritiz…

There are plenty of examples of honor culture within western culture, such as the Antebellum South. Dueling was huge amongst the aristocratic cultures of Europe and US (see Alexander Hamilton). It is certainly making a comeback today. In the US specifically certain people were against mask mandates to the point where they actually banned people wearing masks during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. Masks became a point of contention where some people needed to defend the family/group from wearing them at any cost.

Re: Tell HN: I salute everyone on call/working support through the holidays

#170

Post by alias_neo »

nlitened wrote: post #159
jeffhuys wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do NOT do this too much, though. I did this in my last relationship and it turned into resentment from me, while she walked all over me, knowing I would say sorry for everything. It wasn’t her fault, I should’ve protected my values more, but this is a slippery slope. However, my next partner in my opinion should take this and say something like “no, this is not your fault. Let’s work on it”. It could go both ways. I…

> she walked all over me > It wasn’t her fault Sir, I don't know you at all, but coming from personal experience, if you often get walked over, maybe it's time to stop taking shape of a door mat. Maybe it _was_ her fault, and you deserve better.

> maybe it's time to stop taking shape of a door mat

I'm sorry, I know this is a serious discussion, but this made me laugh. I need to use this in the future.

Post reply on HN