161–170 of 245 posts
This is what happens when the EPA's rules state chemical companies, can more or less, police themselves. We've detected PFOAs in rainwater/clouds, in the artic, etc (See https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.2c02765 ) They are going to lead to further health problems down the road.
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Death sentence is probably a bit much, but if management takes actions that they know will kill or maim I don't see a reason why punishment shouldn't be the same as if you went out and hit someone with a hammer. In this case, force 3M to pay for everything, if they refuse or can't the government sells of the company to pay for the cost. I'm not a fan of the death sentence, but I have no problem killing of evil compan…
> Death sentence is probably a bit much Why? If you knowingly decide to poison thousands of people, that makes you a mass murderer. Since when are we so lenient about those?
I agree in principle that IF your country has the death sentence, there is no reason why it should not be applied in such cases as well. But I think death sentences are problematic. Put them in jail and bar them from ever running a company again. That should be enough.
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Death sentence is probably a bit much, but if management takes actions that they know will kill or maim I don't see a reason why punishment shouldn't be the same as if you went out and hit someone with a hammer. In this case, force 3M to pay for everything, if they refuse or can't the government sells of the company to pay for the cost. I'm not a fan of the death sentence, but I have no problem killing of evil compan…
> Death sentence is probably a bit much Why? If you knowingly decide to poison thousands of people, that makes you a mass murderer. Since when are we so lenient about those?
But realize that list for whatever action would be done would be... very long. Monsanto, bunch of Wall street guys (if you trace actions to real consequences), this and probably many more. I think life sentence in maximum security prison in US would be actually worse.
Also, you soon hit grey area, say defense industry and its bribing of government to start wars that killed millions... where do you draw the line? One's man patriot is another's murderer
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I think the exon-mobile report on global warming is one of the most accurate models for predicting global warming, and that was written before this was a big political issue. I think having companies produce the research to hang themself with in the future is unstable though.
That one always makes me sad – imagine how different our world would have been if, say, they’d gone to Carter and offered to go public with the data in exchange for help decarbonizing. He’d have gotten his French-style civilian nuclear power program, they’d probably have been able to successfully shift into emerging green industries with their enormous resources, and we wouldn’t have an expensively cultivated anti-sc…
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How would investors know if something is kept secret?
What about the situation with 3M now? We know that they kept this is a secret, so shareholders should either sell or be criminally liable.
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I don't think that's restricted to parents: I've felt that way since I was ten years old. That doesn't mean we have to kill the perpetrators: just remove them. Retribution might make us feel better, but it doesn't solve anything. It's shutting the stable doors after the horse has bolted. We don't need a special judicial exception for the mass murder of children: we need that to not happen in the first place . At that…
I mostly agree with you. I suppose I missed one important part in my comment - intent . A surviving pilot may not be blamed for a plane crash and associated deaths for merely being at fault . But I bet the story would be different if they did this intentionally , or intentionally allowed it to happen - we'd be talking murder / terrorism charges. Same in this case, I feel there's a difference between deaths of childre…
> In the years 1999–2015 the study found 65 cases of pilot suicide (compared to 195 pilot errors) and six cases of passengers who jumped from aircraft. There were 18 cases of homicide-suicide, totaling 732 deaths; of these events, 13 were perpetrated by pilots.
Pragmatically, I don't see a difference. I couldn't give a shit about the perpetrators: they have lost the right to factor into my moral calculus. I care about the children not dying.
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Death sentence is probably a bit much, but if management takes actions that they know will kill or maim I don't see a reason why punishment shouldn't be the same as if you went out and hit someone with a hammer. In this case, force 3M to pay for everything, if they refuse or can't the government sells of the company to pay for the cost. I'm not a fan of the death sentence, but I have no problem killing of evil compan…
Unfortunately the companies manage to wriggle out of all liability by saying they are bankrupt or transferring to a new company structure. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/johnsona... https://www.lawsuit-information-center.com/2-billion-verdict... $200,000 per victim for knowingly being given cancer. Obscene. I think China executing people is much closer to justice than our system.
Certainly a good system. If the hardest punishment is a fine, it becomes a fee for rich people.
I increasingly think we need personal criminal liability for everyone in the management chain before this will end. As long as you can cash out your options before the reckoning, maybe even spin a division out to go bankrupt, there are just too many people who’ll chase the larger number. You need the guy who gets that internal memo to think that if he doesn’t report it to the EPA, he’ll spend the rest of his life won…
In China, there was a case of baby formula execs (Edit: pointed out to me further down thread that the execs were only jailed for 5-15 years with Sanlu's general manager receiving a life sentence, and the people executed very those directly responsible for tainting the product mentioned) knowingly selling product that was harmful and led to tens of thousands of hospitalizations and a handful of deaths. They were exec…
To be sure, a dairy farmer (Zhang Yujun) and milk salesman (Geng Jinping) were executed[1]. At the highest corporate levels, Sanlu general manager (Tian Wenhua) initially got life in prison...except she'll be released next year after 15 years.
No executives were executed in this scandal.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/24/china-executes...
Purdy was improperly conflating their ability to detect the substance with "harm," and the environmental propagandists have been running with it for a long time. What "harm" precisely did he identify? The article doesn't say. Maybe a carcinogen? Maybe not? There's been a concerted effort to make PFOS/PFAS an environmental super-villain, but it's hard to substantiate when we volitionally ingest many flourinated pharma…
I'm going to be the controversial one here and point out that despite saying they're "harmful", they've been everywhere for all these decades that a lot of other measures of quality of life have been increasing? From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid#Global_... there is this interesting quote: Most industrialized nations have average PFOA blood serum levels ranging from 2 to 8 parts per billion;[57…
> despite saying they're "harmful", they've been everywhere for all these decades that a lot of other measures of quality of life have been increasing? Might be unrelated (or not), but cancer rates have been exploding the last decades. Example via Google-Fu: > Cancer cases in under-50s worldwide up nearly 80% in three decades, study finds https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/05/cancer-cases...