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Who makes the most reliable new cars?

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Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#161

Post by semi-extrinsic »

ecliptik wrote: post #145
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't own a Tesla, but just from observing them on the road and in the neighbourhood I can tell there are many reliability issues just with the easily observable features: * Model S third brake light has single LEDs failing one by one * Model X doors don't open in sub-zero weather, friends of us had an ICE rental car for weeks last winter * All models, automatic activation of rear driving lights at night does not w…

> Model 3 and Y automatic high beams / matrix LED don't function correctly at night if the car is dirty, they blind everyone on the road - I will be very surprised if this doesn't trigger a recall soon Is that what that is? I thought it was my eyes getting older when thinking car headlights are brighter at night than they used to be. We live in an area with a high % of Teslas on the road and this could explain a lot.

Well, yes and no. The first development which is more than ten years old at this point, was to have projector xenon lights that are veery bright below a sharp line. That line is supposed to be kept below eye level of oncoming traffic, and there is a sensor that adjusts the line height. In Europe there is also a requirement to have washers on the headlights if you have this. The system kind of works fine, except when it doesn't, for instance when driving over a curved hill where it cannot work due to geometry, or when a sensor fails.

Then in the past 3-4 years, matrix LED lights became popular, where you have an array of LEDs with narrow beam optics that are aimed in a slight spread, so that each LED covers a specific area of the road ahead. Then there is a sensor that detects oncoming traffic, and dims the one or two LEDs that point towards those cars.

On the Model 3 and Y there seems to be a particularly frequent failure mode with the matrix LED where the lights, or sometimes just one of them, doesn't detect oncoming traffic at all. It also occurs when they are driving behind someone.

Couple of weeks ago I was behind such a Tesla at night, and I had to just let him get far in front of me, because he kept getting blinked at with the ultra-powered high beams of every oncoming semi trailer. Of course the poor driver couldn't do a thing about it.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#162

Post by woleium »

bluemax wrote: post #154
Tactical45 wrote: post #53

I wonder if hybrid being more reliable than gasoline cars is simply a function of most of those being Toyota, versus any effect stemming from the car being Hybrid.

My Toyota hybrid reliably does not start after 4 weeks not driving. The 12 volt (1 year old) battery is drained too much after such a period of inactivity. I was not expecting this from Toyota, pretty disappointing.

to the fusebox with a multimeter batman!

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#163

Post by 303uru »

So reviewing this more closely. This is a joke. What is reliability? I would say, that the car starts in the morning, that it gets you from point A to B, that it isn't in the shop. But that only appears to be half the equation here. While annoying is a panel gap or interior trim issue affect reliability? That's rather weird.

Looking at the data, in terms of true reliability EVs appear to be about on par with ICE cars which is quite the feat considering they have a 120+ year lead. Hammer out the manufacturing defects and the lead seems easy to achieve.

It's also a little weird to not give any nod to the almost complete lack of maintenance for EVs. Is it not a reliability win that you are able to gas up at home and have no maintenance to do other than tires?

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#164

Post by stouset »

neogodless wrote: post #114
stouset wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s a component. But I would be surprised if that’s a primary reason. There’s just a lot more to go wrong with an ICE vehicle. You need oil and regular oil changes. A radiator, tubing, and antifreeze. An alternator. A carburetor and a catalytic converter. Timing belts. A exhaust system. None of this (as far as I know, IANAM) is needed for an electric vehicle. A disproportionate amount of…

You may have misread the parent comment, which talked about HYBRID vehicles being more reliable than ICE-only vehicles. Hybrid vehicles include all of the comments of an ICE vehicle, plus they have electric batteries and motors, and may have a system of transferring power from either system to the wheels. Overall they have higher complexity than either ICE or electric-only vehicles.

Apologies I did misread that.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#165

Post by omginternets »

rokkitmensch wrote: post #149
aalimov_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there’s certainly a temptation there if you’re into working in cars. Alongside your tuning/hooning remark - some cars certainly attract a particular kind of audience, although if it was really hoards, they would have probably released an STI variant for the new body :(

(hordes)

Whoops. Semantic collision with Tony Hoare ^^

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#166

Post by taylodl »

bluemax wrote: post #154
Tactical45 wrote: post #53

I wonder if hybrid being more reliable than gasoline cars is simply a function of most of those being Toyota, versus any effect stemming from the car being Hybrid.

My Toyota hybrid reliably does not start after 4 weeks not driving. The 12 volt (1 year old) battery is drained too much after such a period of inactivity. I was not expecting this from Toyota, pretty disappointing.

Welcome to the motorcycling world! Today's cars continually start the engine - that's a huge draw. If you're going to leave your car sit more than a couple weeks then you should put your battery on a tender. Motorcyclists have been doing that for decades.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#167

Post by amluto »

bluemax wrote: post #154
Tactical45 wrote: post #53

I wonder if hybrid being more reliable than gasoline cars is simply a function of most of those being Toyota, versus any effect stemming from the car being Hybrid.

My Toyota hybrid reliably does not start after 4 weeks not driving. The 12 volt (1 year old) battery is drained too much after such a period of inactivity. I was not expecting this from Toyota, pretty disappointing.

Maybe they hired whoever designed the original Tesla Model S 12V battery management system. Or the original Tesla low-power sleep system.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#168

Post by pcl »

taylodl wrote: post #166
bluemax wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Toyota hybrid reliably does not start after 4 weeks not driving. The 12 volt (1 year old) battery is drained too much after such a period of inactivity. I was not expecting this from Toyota, pretty disappointing.

Welcome to the motorcycling world! Today's cars continually start the engine - that's a huge draw. If you're going to leave your car sit more than a couple weeks then you should put your battery on a tender. Motorcyclists have been doing that for decades.

Why is that an issue for motorcycles?

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#169

Post by rwmj »

bluemax wrote: post #154
Tactical45 wrote: post #53

I wonder if hybrid being more reliable than gasoline cars is simply a function of most of those being Toyota, versus any effect stemming from the car being Hybrid.

My Toyota hybrid reliably does not start after 4 weeks not driving. The 12 volt (1 year old) battery is drained too much after such a period of inactivity. I was not expecting this from Toyota, pretty disappointing.

One thing I never understood is why hybrids have the 12 volt battery at all. Couldn't the entertainment system etc be powered from the 200V EV battery (after stepping it down obviously)?

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#170

Post by thedaly »

alex_c wrote: post #80

>We weigh the severity of each type of problem to create a predicted reliability score for each vehicle, from 1 to 100. It bothers me to see a 1 to 100 scale for this - what does the number actually mean in practice? Comparing a score of 80 and a score of 20, does that mean the lower score is likely to need 4x as many trips to the mechanic? 4x as much spent on repairs in a year? In other words - how big is the gap be…

> ...what does the number actually mean in practice?

Seemingly very little:

We study 20 trouble areas, from nuisances—such as squeaky brakes and broken interior trim—to major bummers, such as potentially expensive out-of-warranty engine, transmission, EV battery, and EV charging problems. We use that information to give reliability ratings for every major mainstream model.

We weigh the severity of each type of problem to create a predicted reliability score for each vehicle, from 1 to 100. We use that information to give reliability ratings for every major mainstream vehicle. (The reliability rating is then combined with data collected from our track testing, as well as our owner satisfaction survey results and safety data, to calculate each test vehicle’s Overall Score.)

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