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The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

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Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#161
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We decry "demands" when we should acknowledge "dependencies;" kids won't properly compile without their needs met.

We have brainwashed our western minds to make women leave their kids in daycare sometimes weeks after being born. Then we are brainwashed to let kids sleep in a separate room so that mommy can get a good night's rest and be productive at work. We need a minimum of 3 years of maternity leave in our country to being with. It is insane as one of the best countries in the world we don't let people have kids naturally.

The movie "The Pod Generation" (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15768848/) has a theme that touches what you state. No need to get pregnant, give birth, stay home with your kid. While in the pod the fetus can be trained, educated, etc...

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#162
post #80
post #62

This is once of the things that remote work/homeworking may enable, if companies don't succeed in taking it away. If people can rely on getting remote work, they can arrange their living situation to improve the rest of their life, instead of for work: - young people living in large halls, to improve their dating prospects - groups of friends living close together across job moves, enabling longer term friendships -…

Only for the upper class. The lower class still has to go man the gas stations, grocery stores, warehouses, and factories.

Don’t think it has to do with class. Surgeons and dentists still need to show up to work. Even in tech, the higher up you are, the more likely you will want to be in the office.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the word "exceptionally" arises when comparing with other animals, the amount of effort a human child needs from its parents and family until an advanced age is unprecedented in other terrestrial companions.

Yeah maybe that’s why women live longer in order to help with the exhausting process of raising their grandchildren [1]. We love to take care of babies, regardless of (or maybe because of) how clingy and dependent they are. From an Evolutionary point of view, This relationship between needy babies and abnegated caregivers might have given rise to a complementary schimogenesis according to Gregory Bateson, in which ba…

> I cannot understand how come there are so many parents bearing children worldwide.

Because the best thing you can do for the world is to raise children well. If they raise theirs, etc. its a cycle of good over thousands of years, that will have more positive impact than anything you could do in your life as an individual.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#165
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We decry "demands" when we should acknowledge "dependencies;" kids won't properly compile without their needs met.

We have brainwashed our western minds to make women leave their kids in daycare sometimes weeks after being born. Then we are brainwashed to let kids sleep in a separate room so that mommy can get a good night's rest and be productive at work. We need a minimum of 3 years of maternity leave in our country to being with. It is insane as one of the best countries in the world we don't let people have kids naturally.

> We need a minimum of 3 years of maternity leave in our country to being with

And a year of mandatory evaluation and treatment at a psycologist for various baggage, complexes and plain stupidity that will manifest when raising a child.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#166

The book Hunt, Gather, Parent touches on this a bit. It takes 3-4 humans, not necessarily adults but cousins and whatnot, to take care of a child. Two? 6-8. Since western societies broke up tight knit communities, the support system for this in the west has been lacking and jerry rigged with tired parents and nannies etc ever since. The reason for the breakup is fun - https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/11/ro…

The linked article is pretty ridiculous. I am pretty sure it leaves out a lot of nuance from the underlying work - as these types of press releases normally do - but there is a bunch of stuff in there that just does not make sense. First the taboo against consanguineous marriages was most likely because of genetic diseases. Biology may not have been very advanced, but people were smart enough to pick up on patterns.…

> Is “the hero’s journey” not a story about rugged individualism that has been told over and over in different forms across cultures since the beginning of history?

I dont thi k thats true at all -

Lets see, oldest stories - buddhism, hiduism - none of them are about individualism.

I wouldn't say the christian writing or that of ancient Egypt is about individualism either.

The oldest 'hero's journey' I can think of, would be myths of ancient greece - but ewually, many of them are not heroic, they are dramas.

The dominance of this genre is a compeltely modern phenomena

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#167
post #80
post #62

This is once of the things that remote work/homeworking may enable, if companies don't succeed in taking it away. If people can rely on getting remote work, they can arrange their living situation to improve the rest of their life, instead of for work: - young people living in large halls, to improve their dating prospects - groups of friends living close together across job moves, enabling longer term friendships -…

Only for the upper class. The lower class still has to go man the gas stations, grocery stores, warehouses, and factories.

You are missing the feedback loop - if middle class doesn't need to be crammed in a megacity to have a career, then neither does the grocery store.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#168
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If living in a tight knit village, sacrificing your freedoms is the best option you have, then that is what most people choose. If there exists an option for you retain your freedom and have financial independence and physical security, then people tend to choose that you make it sound like these are opposing incompatible choices. why not choose both? i'd love to live in a small tight knit community. going to school…

Because they are incompatible choices. You have to live by the rules of the said small tight knit community. since gp said indian, in indian communities you have to marry within the community otherwise you "bring shame" to the community. This coercion doesn't even have to be explicit like that it acts on you in insidious ways . Its the classic tradeoff between security and freedom.

> in indian communities you have to marry within the community

Is this not evidence for the original point?

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's not really about responding to 100% of a child demands, it's maybe even detrimental, and probably better to start teaching him patience, and let him learn what to do in boredom. But the other part is having long and meaningful activities/experiences with a child

I try to teach my baby to be patient when he’s hangry, but he slaps, punches, kicks and bites. He doesn’t even say “I’m hangry, you incompetent giant”. He demands to be held in arms, he punches, bites and slaps my face. He did this for the first time when he was around 3 months old. Patience is learnt through many years, specially when the belly is full. Hangry people can turn violent, like most restaurant workers kn…

> children can not be reasonable when they are in a tantrum

Are you supposed to grow out of that? I’m 51 and I still notice this about myself at times!

(Only half joking here. It is amazing how hard it can be to snap out of a “sulky mood” after some type of frustration or disappointment, even when you’re aware of it and that it’s doing more harm than good).

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the word "exceptionally" arises when comparing with other animals, the amount of effort a human child needs from its parents and family until an advanced age is unprecedented in other terrestrial companions.

Yeah maybe that’s why women live longer in order to help with the exhausting process of raising their grandchildren [1]. We love to take care of babies, regardless of (or maybe because of) how clingy and dependent they are. From an Evolutionary point of view, This relationship between needy babies and abnegated caregivers might have given rise to a complementary schimogenesis according to Gregory Bateson, in which ba…

> Yeah maybe that’s why women live longer in order to help with the exhausting process of raising their grandchildren.

Except that men become more important, especially for boys, but also as exemplars for girls, the older children get. Nurturing is more important earlier on, which is also the specialty of women. Men are generally terrible at it and generally hate it, while women tend to have a much greater affinity.

> We love to take care of babies, regardless of (or maybe because of) how clingy and dependent they are.

We must be careful with words like "love", because in our day and age, we have assumed a very reductive and immature understanding of it (as that which gives us pleasure or sensuous delight and "good feelings"). Love toward children is dominated by the hard work of charity. The aim is to guide a human being into adulthood for that other person's sake, for the sake of their true end, not for ourselves (hence the self-centeredness of thinking one is entitled to having children, resorting to all sorts of immoral technologies to have them). Disinterested charity, of course, has the effect of actualizing us as people, and nothing is as actualizing as parenthood, as that is our essential identity (one that can be exercised in surrogate ways, of course).

> babies might have evolved to be more and more dependent, because having more and more invested caregivers produces fitter offspring.

The major reason human beings require more investment is intelligence. Many species are born or hatched ready to go, and perhaps never meet their parents. Some require only a relatively short period of parental support. But human beings must go through a long period of formation. Intelligence is also the reason why we lack all sorts of anatomical features that other animals have. Why? Because intelligence allows us to pursue all sorts of ends, while other animals are quite limited in this regard. Thus, we lose the baggage and instead make technology, like clothing, that allows us to adapt to any environment. Fur or scales or whatever are far more limited.

> Parenthood is a self-inflicted sabotage and I cannot understand how come there are so many parents bearing children worldwide.

What a freakish statement. Sabotage of what, and how? If anything is being sabotaged, is it our nature to be parents by the culture of mindless, emtpy distractions of hedonistic and superficial consumerism. This antinatalism is an attack on the human person. It destroys the common good. Attack parenthood and you attack the raison d'etre almost all of the activity of humankind.

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