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Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

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Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#161

Post by hot_gril »

morbicer wrote: post #155
bugglebeetle wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not going to flag or downvote you, but this is a very typical European mentality. We have large numbers of immigrants from the places you cite and they integrate fine. I think there are ~1 million people of Middle Eastern descent in California and again, zero issues. At some point, people have to recognize it’s their own culture’s biases that create the social conditions that prevent integration and not the fault…

I am not saying those regions only have bad people. Lots of good people, just some bad apples. But in USA you usually get whole families and not a bunch of young single men. That's one factor that de-risks the integration. The second factor is you get people that can afford plane ticket (likely more educated) and go through some form of border check. I believe the vast majority of the Middle Eastern people in Califor…

I don't think the nation of origin matters a lot here, it's just that the USA is very far away and not as known for state welfare. Imagine what kind of person from any of these countries would go all the way to the US, especially an expensive place like California, instead of Europe. My family here is from the Mid East, they say the same thing. On top of that, we have freer speech/expression so things are less tense.

Also, if you're suggesting the issue is sharia law or something similar, it's weird to list Iran as ok but Syria/Iraq as anti-woman etc. Other way around there.

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#162

Post by flextheruler »

caslon wrote: post #70
mrweasel wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next town over from me have a large Vietnamese community, the older generation frequently only speak Vietnamese, relying on their children and grandchildren to help them navigate in society, doctors appointments, interacting with the government and all those things. I'm continuously surprised that someone would refuse to learn the language of a country they lived in for almost 50 years... Like WHY? Seems rather r…

Learning one language is hard. Only 46% of American native English speakers have above a 6th grade reading level. 20% are functionally illiterate. https://www.barbarabush.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/BBFou...

I’d have to imagine a good portion of that is most likely from immigration though.

Even if you’re a native English speaker if your parents are 1st generation Americans there’s still an effect on educational attainment especially depending on the cultural background. It’s a chicken or egg situation. Whenever aggregates are brought up about the US educational system it’s questionable. This country is so large and diverse. I believe if you cut out the Deep South and poor inner city communities our educational rankings shoot back up to the top. There’s a reason the best universities in the world are still in America. It’s not like public education is neglected until college age we just have certain parts of the country that drastically underperform and it’s lot easier to have those parts when it isn’t a small homogeneous community.

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#163

Post by kamikazeturtles »

poisonarena wrote: post #90
kamikazeturtles wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of discrimination against people who don't speak the host nations language (especially in Europe) so maybe the above commenter felt he needed to defend non-English speakers in California Nothing wrong with that

found his second account..

I don't know who "his" is

I'm just a dude in Minnesota

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#164

Post by kingofpandora »

mrweasel wrote: post #46
olalonde wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know but my wife used to play mahjong in SF Chinatown and almost no one spoke English, including some people who had been in the US for over 30 years. It was a bit surprising.

The next town over from me have a large Vietnamese community, the older generation frequently only speak Vietnamese, relying on their children and grandchildren to help them navigate in society, doctors appointments, interacting with the government and all those things. I'm continuously surprised that someone would refuse to learn the language of a country they lived in for almost 50 years... Like WHY? Seems rather r…

How many American expats in other countries bother to learn the local language?

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#165

Post by hot_gril »

bugglebeetle wrote: post #160
morbicer wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying those regions only have bad people. Lots of good people, just some bad apples. But in USA you usually get whole families and not a bunch of young single men. That's one factor that de-risks the integration. The second factor is you get people that can afford plane ticket (likely more educated) and go through some form of border check. I believe the vast majority of the Middle Eastern people in Califor…

I’m originally from the Midwest and we have large populations of people from Iraq, Syria, and the Horn of Africa, as well as Palestine, which is a more recent target of bigotry. Look up Minneapolis, Minnesota or Dearborn, Michigan. Overall, those people are more discriminated against there than they would be in California (because the overall culture is more racist against anyone who isn’t white), but still there are…

Dearborn is the most Arab-influenced place I've ever been by far. Nowhere in California is like that. Kinda funny considering the surroundings.

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#166

Post by hot_gril »

thegrim33 wrote: post #122
cmehdy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most Europeans agree we're doing it wrong, but we disagree as to where the solutions are. Generally left leaning parties will want to create support for immigrants through money, education, and some nebulous flexibility with repression. Right leaning parties will want strict adherence to the ideals of the Republic, more enforcement/repression when any transgression is observed, and some nebulous perfected cri…

How many European countries can you list that have stricter immigration policies today than 20 or 30 or 50 years ago? I can't list a single one. How do you square this with your claim that right leaning ideology is "taking hold"? If anything the actual data points to massively loosened immigration laws and massively loosened penalties for choosing to evade immigration laws.

The right-leaning side is taking hold very recently, is what he probably means.

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#167

Post by [deleted] »

cmehdy wrote: post #82
bugglebeetle wrote: post #32

Whenever I see Europeans railing about the destruction of their cultures by small number of immigrants, I want to point to California and be like “you’re doing it wrong.” Pretty much within one generation, everyone here is bilingual, fully integrated, we all enjoy each others company, culture and food etc.

I think most Europeans agree we're doing it wrong, but we disagree as to where the solutions are. Generally left leaning parties will want to create support for immigrants through money, education, and some nebulous flexibility with repression. Right leaning parties will want strict adherence to the ideals of the Republic, more enforcement/repression when any transgression is observed, and some nebulous perfected cri…

[deleted]

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#168

Post by unethical_ban »

nine_zeros wrote: post #47

One of the things that makes America (and the American economy) so great and so large is the fact that the type of economic participants changes rapidly. When the types of participants change, the types of businesses change, leading to continuous change and innovation. As an example, my state was majority Italians (including many bilingual families). Since the 2000, the demographics have been moving towards Spanish (…

I don't see what's inherently good about the second paragraph. Nor is it inherently bad, I just don't see why cultural shifts once per generation is necessarily good and itself.

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#169

Post by sin7 »

iaseiadit wrote: post #124
sin7 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lies, damn lies and then this. 85% counts Hispanic people as white. The 35% does not. Ain't no way this is an innocent mistake. Hispanic people have always been a large portion of California.

No, both numbers refer to non-Hispanic whites. The Hispanic population of California was 13.7% in 1970. 19% in 1980, 39% in 2020: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanics_and_Latinos_in_Cal... And over 55% of students in CA public schools today: https://dq.cde.ca.gov/dataquest/dqcensus/enrethlevels.aspx?a... The shift in demographics wasn't driven entirely by the increase in the Hispanic population, and in fact I di…

I misread your comment. Sorry about that. I misread it because I think of a generation as twenty years and a lifetime as what you described. Sorry again.

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#170

Post by hot_gril »

switch007 wrote: post #137
sin7 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

De facto is not the same as official.

Not much of an argument but when it comes to English it is. “Official” as in widely and universally recognised and accepted by government authorities? English in the UK (and US) absolutely is Though now we’re just descending in to semantics which is not very entertaining

California recognizes Spanish quite a bit, including on official forms like the DMV.
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