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Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

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Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#161

Post by paul7986 »

sroussey wrote: post #160
paul7986 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if another human is lodged under millions of drivers' cars ..you are saying 99 percent of them are going to run them over and flee? There's that many murders out there? Further you are saying what I detest about this dumb technology ..that being ..oh once we hurt someone or killed them we will have learned something from their death and push out a software update with each person we harm or kill. Thanks for sacrifici…

If you don’t want death from cars, get rid of cars. Love humans more. Two pedestrians were killed today in my home town, for example. Tens of thousands die because of cars every year, either inside them or outside them. Automobiles are dangerous technology. Before they existed you could be in a carriage and tell the horse to go home while you passed out. Thanks to the automobile, you’ll be dead instead. And there is…

Yes but not one specific entity profits from all the vehicular carnage that happens daily. Daily accidents are part of our societal experience.

More importantly Any one profiting entity Putting robot cars which they surely know aren't ready for prime time but say or act they are is beyond egregious! Such startups or companies who do such things to win this race at all cost is putting profits/market share over the safety they bang their drum about and thus such behavior willfully harms & has harmed innocent lives. Both Uber and Cruise acted as such and both now are no longer because if it!

Human beings over technology that kills everyday for me unless they've proven like Waymo's track record /behavior shows they truly are about safety first .. human beings over profits/market share. Though I'd still love to know after cruise's incident did Waymo push out a software update ..uggh if so.

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#162

Post by matthewfelgate »

matthewfelgate wrote: post #143

Kyle Vogt has failed and Cruise is a catastrophe. Fine, if you want to judge Vogt on a CEO-friendliness scale, how to scam a company into paying billions of dollars for a no return, or how to occasionally posts on Hacker News / Reddit like a "Real Human" TM then feel free to consider him/Cruise a huge success. In the real world Cruise currently has 0 cars giving 0 people driverless rides. The game is over. The mask h…

This comes across harsher than I expected and I'm not sure I would have done much different to Vogt had I been in his position. He seems like someone I want to be friends with. I don't know the details. I just want self-driving to succeed.

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#163

Post by SR2Z »

oldgradstudent wrote: post #156
SR2Z wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not "human monitor or the car crashes." This is "human monitor or the car might do a safe stop and block traffic." A human driver can easily get away with the latter, and often do. A self-driving car can't, because people hold them to higher standards.

> This is "human monitor or the car might do a safe stop and block traffic." And they need all those people because their software cannot reliably handle it itself. Otherwise they would not used so many people. > A human driver can easily get away with the latter, and often do. A self-driving car can't, because people hold them to higher standards. LOL. They've been blocking streets all over the place. https://techcr…

Yeah, and unlike humans who double park, people lose their minds at an AV, hence why the company increased the number of operators.

They're also overstaffed to deal with surges - I recommend you go read the (ex) CEO's response to these claims. As the number of cars on the road goes up, the number of employees required to deal with surges increases more slowly. At some point the ratio increases from 1:20, which is where it's already at.

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#164

Post by kbenson »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #126
kbenson wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some of these are qualities that I could see leading to someone thinking he was "aimless" or a "confused mess", but these are also things that engender a lot of respect from employees. Respect from employees is a fickle thing. If someone can do all that you describe and still succeed as a CEO then power to them. When it comes time to choose between one or the other, I think most employees would rather an effective…

Isn't keeping your finger on the pulse of the company an important part of the CEO's job though?

What is "the pulse of the company"? Is having a bunch of meeting with people possibly multiple levels below you keeping a pulse on the business, or is it micromanaging, or focusing on an area you understand because it's easier than spending that time on an area which you understand less?

I think aCEO should have people that work under them that can actually perform the duties they were hired for. Spot checking department and employees to make sure what's being reported to the CEO is accurate is probably a very good idea, but if the CEO is spending a bunch of time in meetings with people that they've already hired others to manage, that either shows there's a severe problem in that department that requires the CEO's constant attention, or a lack of trust in the people they hired to run that department to actually do what they were hired for. Neither are signs of what you'd want to see, IMO.

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#165

Post by oldgradstudent »

SR2Z wrote: post #163
oldgradstudent wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is "human monitor or the car might do a safe stop and block traffic." And they need all those people because their software cannot reliably handle it itself. Otherwise they would not used so many people. > A human driver can easily get away with the latter, and often do. A self-driving car can't, because people hold them to higher standards. LOL. They've been blocking streets all over the place. https://techcr…

Yeah, and unlike humans who double park, people lose their minds at an AV, hence why the company increased the number of operators. They're also overstaffed to deal with surges - I recommend you go read the (ex) CEO's response to these claims. As the number of cars on the road goes up, the number of employees required to deal with surges increases more slowly. At some point the ratio increases from 1:20, which is whe…

> Yeah, and unlike humans who double park, people lose their minds at an AV, hence why the company increased the number of operators.

Looks like they haven't increased the number of operators enough.

> They're also overstaffed to deal with surges

Are they? How are they going to handle the next bay area earthquake? Will they have enough operators for that, or are they going to block first responders all over the city?

Fortunately, this is a moot point, because it is doubtful whether they are going to survive.

> I recommend you go read the (ex) CEO's response to these claims. As the number of cars on the road goes up, the number of employees required to deal with surges increases more slowly. At some point the ratio increases from 1:20, which is where it's already at.

Nice theory. Note that the number of remote operators shocked everyone that was following Cruise. They were constantly asked about number of cars per operator, what exactly the duties of a remote operators were, etc. They always avoided these quetions, and for a good reason. It turns out this was far worse than anyone outside Cruise could have imagined.

Re: Kyle Vogt resigns from Cruise

#166

Post by GlassOwAter »

pc wrote: post #71
amacneil wrote: post #58

Since there is so much negativity in this thread, let me balance it with my take as someone who worked at Cruise for 5 years (left 3 years ago). Kyle is the smartest, most technically capable, driven person I have ever had the opportunity to work for. He had a deep technical understanding of the system, a great intuition for unnecessary complexity, and a constant desire to find and resolve engineering bottlenecks. An…

I knew Kyle in college. He was extremely smart, kind, patient, and friendly. (He was a few years ahead of me; I was a random Irish freshman who had just shown up.) Looking back, he's one of the people who inspired me to get into startups. While we never ended up working together, it wasn't for lack of trying on my side -- everyone said he was phenomenal, and I tried hard to persuade him to join Stripe in the early da…

I have a company that makes terpene-infused hard candies (nothing illegal/gray area). When we started in 2016 we were soon kicked off of Stripe, because the candy was classified by them as a drug. I then learned about their strict views and how they also ban other legal products/services from using their service. That was very frustrating.
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