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Nothing Phone says it will hack into iMessage, bring blue bubbles to Android

arstechnica.com

161–170 of 175 posts

Re: Nothing Phone says it will hack into iMessage, bring blue bubbles to Android

#161
Technically and legally this should be possible. Unfortunately there are both ethical and technical reasons to avoid Sunbird. The Sunbird developers are spreading a FUD hit piece against open source software[1], which rubs me very wrong. They also clearly don't understand software development best practices.

The following statement from Sunbird makes no sense, and only serves to imply that they don't practice code review: "There is no central authority to ensure quality and maintenance [of open source contributions] and by putting that responsibility on Sunbird, development would not be feasible."

If they're worried that open source contributions will sneak flaws past code review, then they clearly aren't ready to review existing closed source contributions either.

1. https://twitter.com/sephr/status/1648471196680478720

Re: Nothing Phone says it will hack into iMessage, bring blue bubbles to Android

#162
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care what Google wants, I care about an open standard and ending vendor lockin. Did you think it was a problem when Microsoft refused to release MS Office for Apple as well, many years ago?

And I care about privacy and security. Which is why any standard where end to end encryption is not mandatory is unacceptable.

So is the status quo where only sms is interoperable acceptable?

Re: Nothing Phone says it will hack into iMessage, bring blue bubbles to Android

#163
9to5Mac.com are reporting that Apple are going to support RCS messaging soon: > Later next year, we will be adding support for RCS Universal Profile, the standard as currently published by the GSM Association. We believe RCS Universal Profile will offer a better interoperability experience when compared to SMS or MMS. This will work alongside iMessage, which will continue to be the best and most secure messaging experience for Apple users.

I'm curious what people think the game plan and business dynamics is for this decision?

Re: Nothing Phone says it will hack into iMessage, bring blue bubbles to Android

#164

9to5Mac.com are reporting that Apple are going to support RCS messaging soon: > Later next year, we will be adding support for RCS Universal Profile, the standard as currently published by the GSM Association. We believe RCS Universal Profile will offer a better interoperability experience when compared to SMS or MMS. This will work alongside iMessage, which will continue to be the best and most secure messaging expe…

> I'm curious what people think the game plan and business dynamics is for this decision?

Follow the wind and self-police before more lawsuits are filed or regulations are imposed.

All the cool kids are (finally) starting to do it.

Re: Nothing Phone says it will hack into iMessage, bring blue bubbles to Android

#165

Do most Android users actually care one way or an another? IMO, it seems like there's a small, if vocal, minority of folks with a deeply weird inferiority complex around blue bubbles and most people don't care at all. None of my Android using friends seem to give a shit.

In Europe - NL/CH/IE, specifically - everybody I know uses WhatsApp and Signal (except the Swiss who sometimes insist on Threema), even between iPhones-- iMessage never even comes up. I don't think anybody's sent me an SMS in literally years, bar one North American-based guy I used to work with. (I'm sure someone out there knows a clique of European iMessage partisans, but that someone is not me!)

I've only seen iMessage get used in familes where everyone has an apple device for family chats and stuff.

Re: Nothing Phone says it will hack into iMessage, bring blue bubbles to Android

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absurd. Imagine if it extended to voice calls. You could only talk to Apple users if you own an iPhone. Apple, and I guess you, would love it. This is why we have regulated interoperability on many mass-market technologies. Imagine requiring a Ford to use certain gas stations or a Sony TV to view certain channels. There is no upside for the consumer when mass-market products leverage their popularity to create w…

You can send a SMS to iPhone users, and they'll see that in iMessage. If you want a group chat with friends, there are a bunch of apps for that. If your friends wants those cool features but refuse to use any one of existing apps besides iMessage to talk to you, then they are not your friends.

I guess the coutnerpoint is that SMS was invented in, what, the mid 90s? And MMS invented in the mid 00s (?) when things like group chats or sending a video (!) over a phone (at least > 500KB) were inconceivable. We are long overdue for a new, modern, open standard. Apple has in a way invented a pseudo-standard and a) refusing to let others in and b) refusing to also support any other open standard. I think it's reasonable to expect we have a modern standard that supports now-simple things like half decent video transfer, files, groups, locations, etc.

Re: Nothing Phone says it will hack into iMessage, bring blue bubbles to Android

#167
post #139
post #117

Looks like Nothing is partnering with a US-based third party called Sunbird to build this service. From Sunbird’s site ( https://sunbirdapp.com ): > Will the app be open source? > Some of the messaging community believes that software that is open source is more secure. It is our view that it is not. The more visibility there is into the infrastructure and code, the easier it is to penetrate it. By design, open sourc…

I take the opposite view, look no further than all the security holes in Microsoft Windows compared to Linux which is more difficult to actually maliciously hack that windows. Security by obscurity has failed every time it's been attempted. every. time.

> I take the opposite view, look no further than all the security holes in Microsoft Windows compared to Linux which is more difficult to actually maliciously hack that windows.

Honestly this is a bad example, given the Linux kernel maintainers shitty attitude towards security bugs, and that Windows these days does have a good security design and has had since Vista/7.

Re: Nothing Phone says it will hack into iMessage, bring blue bubbles to Android

#168
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because iMessage seamlessly integrates into SMS/MMS, and very few Americans rely on alternative apps for their primary messaging platform. As for why blue bubbles? No idea. Best guess is it's seen as a status thing - green bubbles are non-iPhone users. The only other theory I have is that iMessage is cross-platform with other Apple devices, but that is a strong argument for other messaging apps IMO.

Then the question becomes: "_SMS?!_". Nobody in Europe uses SMS. I think I've cracked it though. I've noticed that Apple's service inside the U.S.A. is different to the level of service they provide outside of it (briefly; it's better). This led to the 60%+ market share there, whilst the rest of the world is Android dominated. iMessage was adding cool features, and it makes sense that if most people you know already…

I think I have some unique perspective here, actually, as an American who's been living in the UK for the past year.

I think you're right about the feature set. It's a big historical win for iMessage, and it took a while for Telegram, WhatsApp, etc. to catch up.

I think the other thing here is that a lot of people in Europe have friends from other countries, or travel outside of the country often, and European phone plans don't generally offer good international rates. In the US, most plans offer unlimited SMS/MMS, including international messages -- it wouldn't cost me any more to send SMS to people in Europe from my old American plan (i.e., it would still cost me nothing beyond my base plan price). For Europeans, using WhatsApp is a convenient runaround for this issue. It's a single platform that works internationally, with no particular hurdles aside from "Do you have WhatsApp?"

As an extra little anecdote about the challenges present here, I had to get a Google Voice account and transfer my American number to it, and I now use the Google Voice app to message my family back home. It's pretty annoying, and generally a terrible experience for me, but getting people in the US onto another messaging platform is pretty much a lost cause at this point. I have all of the major messaging apps on my phone - iMessage, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Facebook Messenger, etc. But I just text with most of my American friends, except some of the more privacy-conscious tech nerds who use Signal.

Re: Nothing Phone says it will hack into iMessage, bring blue bubbles to Android

#169
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't make things up. Parent never said a) they own an Android or b) they own one for ideological reasons. >As someone who cares little for the ideology of consumer choices, I don’t think we’d get along This means you actually _do_ care about the ideology of consumer choices, no?

Based on the original comment, the poster heavily implied they’re an Android user specifically for ideological reasons. And indeed, a recent comment confirms this, at least the using Android part: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37771766 Honestly, this was self-evident from the comment. I’m surprised you’re questioning this. Similarly, when I say I don’t care, I really mean I don’t care. I don’t want to spend ti…

Not really for ideological reasons: I simply find iOS frustrating. I bought an iPod Touch V1 when it first came out and was impressed relative to PDAs of the era; 2G iPhones weren't even available in Europe at that time. I own an iPhone that I use secondarily, and I've tried to switch to an iPhone as my primary device on 3 occasions after being swayed by various people in my life banging on about how great they are ("...now, since they fixed [niggle you're complaining about!"). It invariably ends in, as I usually render it, me "wanting to spike it on the concrete within about an hour of picking it up." The inflexibility of the launcher environment, inability to sideload applications outside of my account's market region (supermarket apps, car parking apps, etc.), browser eccentricities, and so on. I consider these to be technical quarrels. My freetard tendencies haven't prevented me from using Macs heavily for the last two decades.

But on some level, I think I agree with you: the system is working, and just as someone might not want to date me because I use a low-status Android phone (regardless if it cost as much or more than an iPhone), or I prefer a different brand of shoes to the ugly white sneaker currently held in highest esteem, I would not want to date that person if they are so...shallow, I suppose, since I can't think of a less inflammatory term...as to select their mate based on trivialities.

Incidentally, my wife has been an iPhone user since she switched to a smartphone with the 3GS. She has used a spare Android device for a few months between iPhones after an untimely accident, but finds it frustrating because it's not like an iPhone. She also actively prefers Windows, having tried macOS. We met at age 20 in the dumbphone era, and have somehow been married 10 years, and together 19. We bought a farm a couple years ago, and I've recently retired from tech and taken up hobby farming. She loves the quiet of the Irish countryside, and so do I. The house and farm were bought with cash. We've never had a new car; in fact, we've never had a car newer than 9 years old or costing more than €7950. Had she selected against me as a partner all those years ago because I had a Siemens phone rather than a Nokia, our lives would both be very different, but thankfully we both value things that tip the balance materially, rather than peacockish status signifiers that may have nothing to back them up but a costly monthly installment plan with the mobile service provider.

Kids these days, and in all days preceding...

Re: Nothing Phone says it will hack into iMessage, bring blue bubbles to Android

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What on Earth would drive that perception? Do iOS users prefer dating other people who will spend lots of money on a status symbol? This sounds like nothing but a thinly-veiled attempt at discrimination based on an assumed level of wealth. (Which, if you've priced out Pixels lately, is not at all accurate.)

Ease of interaction. Higher resolution photos, location sharing, in-line replies and emotes, etc etc Group threads with a single Android user get annoying.

Group threads in one manufacturer-provided chat program get annoying. Venturing outside the defaults by using Signal or WhatsApp (or Threema or Messenger or...) would mitigate this. I suspect the root of the problem is folks accepting defaults unquestioningly, resulting in de facto manufacturer lock-in.
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