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Tragedy of return to hostile offices

benjiweber.co.uk

161–170 of 306 posts

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#161
post #119
post #97

I still remember the time we had no space for an intern to sit so we had to put him in an empty VP office. But only senior people could have windows so they covered his windows in cardboard …

Hahaha. If I didn't know exactly how this happens I would say this is made up.

Made up or not, I got a laugh thinking about that situation

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#163
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The RTO is being entirely driven from the top by institutional investors wanting to avoid losses on property investments and from the bottom by those who have yet to grapple with the fact they dont have friends or hobbies and need you in the office so that they dont feel like such embarrassing losers. I know i'm supposed to "contribute to the conversation" but it's important to recognize that the above point is exa…

IDK, I don’t think real estate part is entirely true. It’s often quoted but most companies have very little RE as a percentage of revenue or whatever metric you think makes most sense. Many more are just leasing RE and could easily have exited that position by now. Even a one time write off could be spun as a positive thing. These properties can be repurposed and have continued value without their corporate tenants.…

The alternative to REIT consipiracy is that execs have run the numbers and loss from remote work is greater than the loss from office work. Painful.

Headlines don't support this, articles only get clicks when celebrating remote work. But there is a very clear disconnect where headlines are saying "remote work is more productive" and executive surverys are saying "we are moving back to offices".

Execs (on the whole, not anecdotes) don't hate money and productivity. If remote work was so much better, they would be rushing to it at breakneck speed. Instead the opposite is happening.

HN Note: Only a small fraction of workers are developers or work in IT. The white collar workforce is huge an varied. The remote vs. RTO debate is about workers on the whole, not just the small sliver that are devs.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#164
post #10

One of the primary reasons that remote work improves productivity is that it allows employees to tailor their environment to their needs, rather than be forced into a hostile office space that requires kafkaesque bureaucratic bullshit to make even minor changes. I once had a former employer force me to take an espresso machine home that I had brought to work because it created a situation where a different shift was…

That's certainly an argument but it's just one bullet point in a supportive 5 paragraph essay. How many employees actually have better equipment and spaces at home? Is your espresso machine improving your productivity, or is it a hobby to fiddle with throughout the day? What other distractions are at home that aren't at the office?

I've never liked the framing of RTO vs WFH in terms of distractions because 1) every setup is so unique and 2) one person's "distraction" is another person's motivation/recharge strategy. For me, personally, things at my home like my dog and good coffee can keep me working for 10-12 hours easily, racking up unpaid overtime for my company. My office by comparison is a depressing space and I am motivated to put in the bare minimum time there so I can go home and log back in and actually get things done. Of course on the other hand are people who find the office campus fun and engaging and they hate their home life because of kids or no real office at home. I don't think distractions can be framed in any meaningful way due to these variances. My work slack is full of wars between the WFH faction and the RTO faction, seemingly split 50/50.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Says anyone who has spent more than a decade in the workforce. Well, no. I have worked almost double that, and I don't feel that way. I tend to think there is mainly an echo chamber of somewhat entitled young north americans incorrectly correlating high compensation in a decade long hyped industry (tech) with social status. > a crafted reality controlled by sociopaths Well if that is your definition of reality, may…

Haha this is like a really poor attempt at PowerTalk and sociopathy from a wannabe executive.

"Have you considered the increased opportunities for synergies in the office? We should punt on this until next quarter's all hands when we can utilize our increased office presence to actualize our OKRs."

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#166

So, I have often worked remotely, think it's fine, and makes sense in some cases. But, honestly, this is a professional-class issue, and every article about it seems written from a viewpoint that has forgotten about most of the population. The waitress and cook never had the option of working remotely, nor did the factory worker, the construction worker, the taxicab driver, the truck driver, etc. etc. Most of the pop…

okay but the plumber doesn't have to learn fucking Kubernetes.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#167
post #114

If RTO drove actual, material benefits to results, companies would be explaining RTO policies by connecting those dots. At this point, I haven't seen a single attempt from any company to offer such a rationale. We can reasonably infer that such policies are not rooted in any evidence-oriented analysis.

RTO has benefits, just not for employees. Commercial real estate, businesses downtown, municipalities, they all benefit from this slow moving trainwreck.

I don't see how those relate to a company's revenue or bottom line, which is usually what we imagine company's to care about above all else.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#168

The majority in my company have forgotten what used to be quite standard office manners before covid. Hot food in the desk area of the office used to be a real no-no, likewise having notification sounds coming out of your laptop constantly.

My office has the exact same problems, plus we have people playing music out-loud and people taking personal phone calls for what seems like 20+ minutes in the working areas. The other week I got to hear all about someone's family get-together while trying to fix production issues.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#169
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The RTO is being entirely driven from the top by institutional investors wanting to avoid losses on property investments and from the bottom by those who have yet to grapple with the fact they dont have friends or hobbies and need you in the office so that they dont feel like such embarrassing losers. I know i'm supposed to "contribute to the conversation" but it's important to recognize that the above point is exa…

IDK, I don’t think real estate part is entirely true. It’s often quoted but most companies have very little RE as a percentage of revenue or whatever metric you think makes most sense. Many more are just leasing RE and could easily have exited that position by now. Even a one time write off could be spun as a positive thing. These properties can be repurposed and have continued value without their corporate tenants.…

I disagree. When you calculate the total spend of a company on Google on real estate then multiply it by their PE ratio and now that spend now has 0 return instead of 30x or so you get a pretty large double digit percentage of their market cap in delta value.

I think you are trivializing a pretty huge risk on the global markets.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#170
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all the memes about cubicles the one time I had it was actually pleasant. You could have a small meeting in the cubicle. The walls were tall enough to hang up reference diagrams. Those same walls meant that sound didn't travel when your PM was on yet another call. Not being able to see a window was a downside. As was there oppressive grey-beige monotony, but I imagine with the Google colour palette they'd be much…

I'm semi interested in the Meta "Cube" cubical, using a sound absorbing adjustable soft 4th partition walls. Made of recycled PET. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35118315 There's various sound absorbing partitions one can buy online that seem kind of neat. But many seem to start at $1000, which suuucckkkss. I wonder what the bulk rate is for material like recycled pet. Not that I have any idea how to turn it in…

From that picture[1] they look _tiny_! My cubicle was at least 30 sqft. Had an extra chair for a coworker to sit down during a consult and could hold upto to 4 people standing. It was a small office, not a phonebooth.

1: https://calnewport.com/meta-rediscovers-the-cubicle/

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