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'Ray, this is a religion': How Bridgewater lost two top hires

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Re: 'Ray, this is a religion': How Bridgewater lost two top hires

#161

Very funny. If it's true that all the talk of computers and statistical modelling at Bridgewater is bullshit, and it's just a vanilla hedge fund, then it reminds me of the story from The Man Who Solved the Market that Renaissance was founded as a quant fund but none of the algorithms actually worked, so Simons just traded on hunches until D.E Shaw started competing with them years later.

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Re: 'Ray, this is a religion': How Bridgewater lost two top hires

#162
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that's the thing with investing. Markets change, trades get crowded, data/tech gets commoditized, and strategies stop working. If you do not have a process and evolve, you are roadkill. So some guys who are early, big and right can attract a halo that long outlives its reality. To build some piece of tech you need to have some sort of process, and it is probably replicable to building another piece of tech. It i…

Buffett seems to do quite well for himself from what we often hear.

Or maybe not:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4423498-berkshire-hathaway-...

Re: 'Ray, this is a religion': How Bridgewater lost two top hires

#164

Very funny. If it's true that all the talk of computers and statistical modelling at Bridgewater is bullshit, and it's just a vanilla hedge fund, then it reminds me of the story from The Man Who Solved the Market that Renaissance was founded as a quant fund but none of the algorithms actually worked, so Simons just traded on hunches until D.E Shaw started competing with them years later.

Renaissance has a very effective legal dept. I'm sure their math stuff is also great, but I was struck a bit reading an old story about the other side of one of their lawsuits/investments regarding a small town. Part of the business is definitely squeezing out an extra 5-10% from distressed exotic assets bought at discounts.

The mythology focusing on math/quant I think is a feature, for them.

Apologies for not finding the original; my $SE appears to be dominated by a recent tax deal instead.

Re: 'Ray, this is a religion': How Bridgewater lost two top hires

#165
post #17

It's interesting. I have seen rating systems work – in the military. They're harsh to some, but in some situations, you have to filter out B and C players to keep the A players alive. I do think transparent systems w/360º peer reviews are better than many others. I wonder what else is out there that might work.

We’re talking about OERs and NCOERs right? Those pencil-whipped, boilerplate evals where if you have a 300 PT score and don’t get a DUI/beat your spouse, 1/1? The process that takes 24 months to kick someone out? I don’t think you know what you’re talking about in this regard and/or didn’t serve, candidly.

I was a Green Beret for 15 years and have worked for DOD/IC for a subsequent five. The rating system I described was used throughout SFQC and on some ODAs and at multiple schools like SOTIC and SFAUC.

NCOERs/OERs aren't great, I agree. They're almost as bad and useless as command climate surveys.

Re: 'Ray, this is a religion': How Bridgewater lost two top hires

#166
post #17

It's interesting. I have seen rating systems work – in the military. They're harsh to some, but in some situations, you have to filter out B and C players to keep the A players alive. I do think transparent systems w/360º peer reviews are better than many others. I wonder what else is out there that might work.

You mention rating so maybe you're talking about enlisted only, which granted I don't know how those work. But the up-or-out system used for officers in the US military is notorious for being primarily political after like O3 and historically almost comically incapable of rejecting unqualified but politically sophisticated/connected officers.

SNCOs have up-or-out too, for sure. I agree that the promotion system across the board is FUBAR. I'm talking about other sytems, typically at the unit level, that can be used to supplement or even side-load the current 'official' rating system, which is a joke.

Re: 'Ray, this is a religion': How Bridgewater lost two top hires

#167
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mention rating so maybe you're talking about enlisted only, which granted I don't know how those work. But the up-or-out system used for officers in the US military is notorious for being primarily political after like O3 and historically almost comically incapable of rejecting unqualified but politically sophisticated/connected officers.

SNCOs have up-or-out too, for sure. I agree that the promotion system across the board is FUBAR. I'm talking about other sytems, typically at the unit level, that can be used to supplement or even side-load the current 'official' rating system, which is a joke.

Oh I see, that makes more sense. I don't have any particular experience or insight, just from an area where military service is routine so I've heard a lot secondhand. Everyone I know in it or retired seems to think the promotion system is completely fucked though. They either fume because it worked against them or laugh because they could work it, but no one seems to think it's effective.

Re: 'Ray, this is a religion': How Bridgewater lost two top hires

#168

I worked with Ferrucci in BW. The internals of the employee rating system that preceded him were hilarious. In short: Everyone is encouraged to rate anyone else in a variety of categories, as often as possible. Every rating is public. You know who is rating you, and how they did it. Those ratings are put together to get a score in every category, and can be seen by anyone. It's your Baseball Card. The problem is that…

If those scores can be seen by everybody it should be possible to mine the data and reverse engineer the algorithm. A bad actor could use this to craft a „malicious review“.

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Re: 'Ray, this is a religion': How Bridgewater lost two top hires

#169

I worked with Ferrucci in BW. The internals of the employee rating system that preceded him were hilarious. In short: Everyone is encouraged to rate anyone else in a variety of categories, as often as possible. Every rating is public. You know who is rating you, and how they did it. Those ratings are put together to get a score in every category, and can be seen by anyone. It's your Baseball Card. The problem is that…

If those scores can be seen by everybody it should be possible to mine the data and reverse engineer the algorithm. A bad actor could use this to craft a „malicious review“.

Apparently there was no algorithm.

Re: 'Ray, this is a religion': How Bridgewater lost two top hires

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My high credibility makes someone else have bad credibility, which changes the rankings again. How many iterations do we run before we consider the results stable? Tangential to your point but this is actually a solved problem and you only have to run once. You might even recognize the solution [1] [2]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigenvalues_and_eigenvectors

More generally factor graph optimization / msg passing, if you don't need the constraint that it must be an eigenvector/eigenvalue operation. The number of iterations is bounded by graph width but is locally constant, if memory serves.

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