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No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

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Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#161

Post by rnk »

frutiger wrote: post #57
feintruled wrote: post #4

That's quite a tale, a parable almost about how software engineering differs from other jobs (I want to say 'real' jobs but tongue in cheek). I like this one too, it's even snappier. A software engineer, a hardware engineer and a department manager were on their way to a meeting in Switzerland. They were driving down a steep mountain road when suddenly the brakes on their car failed. The car careened almost out of co…

> "Well," said the software engineer, "Before we do anything, I think we should push the car back up the road and see if it happens again." Only the brakes don't work - the engine still does. Why would they need to push the car uphill?

You are assuming it goes backwards or uphill. Better test that with a unit test.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#162

Post by maeil »

tialaramex wrote: post #88
ninju wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to hear that...hope everything works out okay

Yeah, it went fine. I had Hodgkins, like 20+ years ago, it's very curable and (I didn't know at the time) occurs relatively often in young men. They fixed it. It's fun because I'm a walking example of why universal healthcare makes sense - even economic sense. I was a broke student, if healthcare cost money there's no way I'd have even gone to a doctor to ask about my weird symptoms - they weren't even really annoyin…

What symptoms did you have?

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#163

Post by user_7832 »

KaseKun wrote: post #160

Feedback: I opened your page, eager to read, saw the "subscribe to my substack" email popup and just left. Not salty, just broke my interest. So now I will go about my day without reading your article. p.s. I'm sure it's very good though Consider saving that popup until I've read some of the article

That's substack behaviour btw, and you can just click continue reading

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#164

Post by sterlind »

fsckboy wrote: post #159
sterlind wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think of applied physicist as something very different, closer to science than engineering. The kinds of people who research new battery chemistries, or the techniques to unlock new semiconductor process nodes. Basically, scientists do hardcore research and expand the field, while engineers apply the techniques and formulas that the scientists have discovered, and craftsmen combine prepackaged modules built by engi…

An electrician who designs a complex light panel using 120VAC for use in a habitable or public building needs to submit the plans to the building department to get a permit and certify that it's not a fire hazard. You need to be a Licensed Engineer™ to do certain levels of certification. People certified to be licensed engineers didn't necessarily graduate from a School of Engineering at a famous university that is a…

I'm confused, is the electrician in this example the Licensed Engineer(tm)? They definitely have to be licensed, since they can burn your house down if they don't know what they're doing. And checking that the plans aren't a fire hazard isn't done by an electrical engineer, is it? I definitely wouldn't trust the electrical engineers I went to school with to do DIY home wiring, by the same token.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#165

Post by defrost »

sterlind wrote: post #164
fsckboy wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An electrician who designs a complex light panel using 120VAC for use in a habitable or public building needs to submit the plans to the building department to get a permit and certify that it's not a fire hazard. You need to be a Licensed Engineer™ to do certain levels of certification. People certified to be licensed engineers didn't necessarily graduate from a School of Engineering at a famous university that is a…

I'm confused, is the electrician in this example the Licensed Engineer(tm)? They definitely have to be licensed, since they can burn your house down if they don't know what they're doing. And checking that the plans aren't a fire hazard isn't done by an electrical engineer, is it? I definitely wouldn't trust the electrical engineers I went to school with to do DIY home wiring, by the same token.

To the extent that Australia and the US are similar, various things require a licensed tradesperson to certify.

The sticking point is what licensed tradesperson would sign off on work done by another unlicensed person?

Here, I've often done full 240 V AC wiring and gas fitting for houses, workshops, abd glass blowing | ceramic studios .. but never connected or made any of it live, instead I've called in local tradespeople to inspect and test the work from end to end, just as they would check the work of an apprentice, and then certify it.

It's been cheaper for me that way as well as allowing for better control of how I want things to go, it's been less hours work for them in an area where they're in high demand and a bit of a win-win.

On at least two such jobs I've been advised to change some details as the most recent codes had changed and required things I'd been unaware of, no drama.

And no, in general university electrical engineers don't leave university with the practical trades skills to wire looms between power plants and racks of mills, screens, and grinders drawing high voltage high amp three phase and requiring complex control and instrumentation circuits.

They can sketch that out but they rarely get the practical cable pulling, wire cutting, box layout, etc experience outside of an actual trade apprenticeship type role.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#166

Post by batch12 »

RGamma wrote: post #157
organian wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "software engineers aren't really engineers" is putting "real engineering" on a pedestal that is borne of ignorance. Hillel Wayne's engineer interviews were eye-opening on this: https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/are-we-really-engineers/

Programmers calling themselves software engineers suddenly is a very recent phenomenon (barely a decade). Dunno who pushed that, but it's mostly basically (cognitively difficult) Lego at this point. That said, it's also on the order of a hundred years younger a discipline and our theory is not so well developed.

My dad called himself a 'computer software engineer' in the early '90s. I don't think it's only a decade old.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#167

Post by weikju »

oefnak wrote: post #144
feintruled wrote: post #4

That's quite a tale, a parable almost about how software engineering differs from other jobs (I want to say 'real' jobs but tongue in cheek). I like this one too, it's even snappier. A software engineer, a hardware engineer and a department manager were on their way to a meeting in Switzerland. They were driving down a steep mountain road when suddenly the brakes on their car failed. The car careened almost out of co…

Or they would say: go fast and break things!

Missed chance for a pun:

Go fast and brake things!

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#168

Post by computerfriend »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #23
computerfriend wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leave it to a physicist to misinterpret that quotation.

Perhaps you could enlighten us oh wise one.

The quotation has no connection to whether you can check your results with experimentation.

But my comment is a joke about their dismissive attitude towards mathematicians.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#169

Post by lemper »

this kind of thing is what I realised in my first 2 years of my work life. and whenever we have a family gathering, those relatives are usually bragging how hard their jobs and life are. but not me, I brag how easy my job is. clock in at 930, get the hell out at 1830, then no thoughts given about job after the hours.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#170

Post by gwbas1c »

kr0bat wrote: post #120
gwbas1c wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, at the end of the article I even wondered what kind of environment Shawn (author) works in where it would take so long to diagnose? Was Shawn able to access anything on the server that would confirm/deny that the image upload was coming through? Why did the image upload work in the test environment but not in the released version of the app? What was different about the test environment? In theory, Shawn should…

Yup, that one paragraph left me scratching my head. In my mind the (very thinly described) image upload functionality should have failed regardless of configuration. Maybe by "the images simply wouldn't upload." the author meant "did not display", and the file was being uploaded to the data store, was visible when viewed in the data store directly, but would not be displayed in app when requested. I got the feeling t…

It's not the technical details that's omitted, though. The 500 mile email story told us about the debugging process and limitations imposed by the speed of light.

Shawn correctly points out that it's okay to get stuck for awhile: It happens to everyone. But he never actually has a lesson that he applies to his job.

In the 500 mile email story, the real lesson is has more to do with understanding the risks of upgrades and the need to manage them.

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