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The death of a public intellectual

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Re: The death of a public intellectual

#161

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

michpoch wrote: post #119
bakuninsbart wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are trying to be a well-rounded person with well-founded opinions on different topics, it makes sense to believe that there are others like you who are further along the way. Both of your examples have a very strong technical component, either understanding the underlying biology/epidemiology or understanding war theory and practice. It is indeed unlikely that someone is an expert in both. But many important t…

> If you are trying to be a well-rounded person with well-founded opinions on different topics, it makes sense to believe that there are others like you who are further along the way. Maybe that's the issue with me. The more I learn, over years, the more cautious I become about forming an opinion . It's very rare that things are black or white, I can see it being all very grey. So if I see someone describing, with fu…

Yep. Naturally, there is a weird social pressure to have an opinion now even if it ends up being just wrong later. Somehow just waiting is not acceptable. You need to take a stance and declare yourself as team A or team B ( or more ), which only adds to the further tribalization of our discourse.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#162

Post by mistermann »

farias0 wrote: post #111
throw_pm23 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it obviously a wrong approach? You see someone make sense of a complex topic, be able to cut through bullshit and appearances, you can use that as a "character witness". Maybe that person has solid thought processes and may get other complex issues right too. There are a few people who I see to be often proven right. Clearly there is a middle ground, we should not blindly follow some authority, but some skills gen…

It is an obviously wrong approach. There are plenty of intelligent people out there, this doesn't keep them from being occasionally wrong. If you have access to the opinion of people who devoted their whole lives to the field in question, why would you seek it from an influencer that perhaps gained fame from being an authority in a couple of non-related fields?

> It is an obviously wrong approach.

Is considering oneself an omniscient Oracle the right approach?

> If you have access to the opinion of people who devoted their whole lives to the field in question, why would you seek it from an influencer that perhaps gained fame from being an authority in a couple of non-related fields?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_effect_(psychology)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(social_sciences)

For myself, the domain(s) that the "influencer" has skills within is crucially important, as certain domains encompass or intersect with almost all others.

This is an interesting comment section from certain specific perspectives, but if one lacks the necessary background you could miss out on the show entirely.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#163

Post by pjc50 »

wincy wrote: post #154
hnreport wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would you even watch this peron videos analysing Ukraine war? So I do this, a lot. Rogan is a good example I struggle with. I regularly go I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about this , on subjects I know he doesn’t know shit about or is just plain wrong about. It isn’t relegated to just Rogan. Musk was another awful one when you first get into him. This has to be a form of non-sexual attraction I think. I’m not gay…

I think as men we have a deep seated need to have a strong leader we respect. If we went into the woods and made a tribe I’d for sure want Joe Rogan or Elon Musk making the decisions. Joe Rogan gives even the village idiot a fair shake to make their point on his podcast. It’s like watching a wise king preside over court. There’s not some big gay mystery here, it’s hardwired “if we go hunting a mammoth, I want Joe Rog…

https://web.archive.org/web/20170131155837/http://www.nybook...

"I had also learned that freedom of speech means freedom from rhetoric."

(if you've never read the whole thing, it's worth it, far beyond the list)

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#164

Post by pjc50 »

keiferski wrote: post #12

It’s unfortunate that there is not an “intellectual media network” that does all the hard public relations stuff for intellectuals and allows them to easily share their work with a public audience. Since this doesn’t exist, you end up with people that are willing to play — and are good at — the media game, which usually means making outrageous attention-grabbing claims that are far outside the person’s expertise.

The problem with this is that serious questions require difficult work, while what the mass audience fundamentally want is a verbal version of professional wrestling. With all the keyfabe and face/heel narratives.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#165

Post by pjc50 »

itsnotabtmoney wrote: post #62

This post treats the constant stream of "new public intellectuals" as some kind of organic, natural phenomenon. It's not, these people reach the top of your YouTube feed because someone wants them there. There's nothing organic about Eric Weinstein or Lex Fridman. People on this site are quick to call something "enshittification" when there are some obvious cash-grabs by megacorps, but are reluctant to admit that the…

> I did, and they subsequently got banned from every social network, and even their website isn't linkable from Facebook or X or YouTube.

Those constitute "fallen".

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#166

Post by pjc50 »

twicetwice wrote: post #96
littlelady wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the term "para-social relationship" might help you.

Yes, this is a textbook parasocial relationship. No judgment—me too. I've been listening to the "New Heights" podcast a lot recently, so my most recent parasocial relationship is feeling like Jason and Travis Kelce are my friends. Of course I know they're not, it's just how these things work. Parasocial relationships are ubiquitous in the modern day. My favorite analogy is that parasocial relationships are the Dorito…

Genuinely I think a lot of these people would be better off if they got into k-pop or something rather than geopolitics.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#167

Post by hnreport »

pjc50 wrote: post #166
twicetwice wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is a textbook parasocial relationship. No judgment—me too. I've been listening to the "New Heights" podcast a lot recently, so my most recent parasocial relationship is feeling like Jason and Travis Kelce are my friends. Of course I know they're not, it's just how these things work. Parasocial relationships are ubiquitous in the modern day. My favorite analogy is that parasocial relationships are the Dorito…

Genuinely I think a lot of these people would be better off if they got into k-pop or something rather than geopolitics.

Bro, so what u saying, u saying millions of us are effectively Rogan simps in a parasocial relationship?

These relationships are on both sides (e.g AOC on the left).

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#168

Post by boringg »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #127
lynx23 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I have learnt is that the majority of people are not interesting enough to keep quiet just to be "allowed" to be around them. The number of people I respect and am interested in listening to their opinion goes down from year to year, with experience. Most people are jerks that deserve to stay in their bubble with their "friends".

In a neighbouring thread we're talking about "conviviality" (Ivan Illich's "Tools for..." It's an odd word. What I found is that almost every random bore at the pub has a wealth of interesting stuff to say. You just have to tease it out. You have to work at conversations. It's a bit of a lost art imho. The first step is always to get the topic off the mainstream (stop exchanging platitudes) by showing an interest in…

So I'm with in theory. People are interesting for the most part. However the amount of work to reward you are describing is tantamount to pulling up hedgerows in zelda for coins. Your not likely to find anything amazing but maybe once in awhile interesting. Again probably depends on the establishment

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#169

Post by pjc50 »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #161
michpoch wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are trying to be a well-rounded person with well-founded opinions on different topics, it makes sense to believe that there are others like you who are further along the way. Maybe that's the issue with me. The more I learn, over years, the more cautious I become about forming an opinion . It's very rare that things are black or white, I can see it being all very grey. So if I see someone describing, with fu…

Yep. Naturally, there is a weird social pressure to have an opinion now even if it ends up being just wrong later. Somehow just waiting is not acceptable. You need to take a stance and declare yourself as team A or team B ( or more ), which only adds to the further tribalization of our discourse.

The best phrasing of that I've seen is "you don't need to issue a statement on everything, you're not an embassy".

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#170

Post by [deleted] »

wincy wrote: post #154
hnreport wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would you even watch this peron videos analysing Ukraine war? So I do this, a lot. Rogan is a good example I struggle with. I regularly go I wonder what Joe Rogan thinks about this , on subjects I know he doesn’t know shit about or is just plain wrong about. It isn’t relegated to just Rogan. Musk was another awful one when you first get into him. This has to be a form of non-sexual attraction I think. I’m not gay…

I think as men we have a deep seated need to have a strong leader we respect. If we went into the woods and made a tribe I’d for sure want Joe Rogan or Elon Musk making the decisions. Joe Rogan gives even the village idiot a fair shake to make their point on his podcast. It’s like watching a wise king preside over court. There’s not some big gay mystery here, it’s hardwired “if we go hunting a mammoth, I want Joe Rog…

[deleted]
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