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We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

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Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#161

Post by comte7092 »

DeIlliad wrote: post #94
comte7092 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 40,000 deaths in the United States every year. Hundreds of thousands of costly accidents Somehow, after a decade of hype, it doesn’t seem like driverless cars are the most direct path to solving that problem. > Let’s start by having trains take you to the airport directly I feel like that exists in a lot of places? Not sure what you mean.

I think "a lot of places" is doing some heavy lifting. There are a few cities in the US that have a train that connects to the airport but not many.

I mean there aren’t that many cities with major airports either.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#163

Post by ShamelessC »

Semaphor wrote: post #18
ShamelessC wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who doesn't live in silicon valley or in any major cities, it's always strange to see HN users talk about these companies as though they already have widespread recognition. I've never seen a car once in my life, and if I did I would probably be fairly cautious around it. I imagine a large portion of Americans would feel similarly.

> I've never seen a car once in my life Your forgotten word makes this comment seem like it’s from the early 1800s ;) That said, as a German, I expect to see driverless cars in 2030 the earliest ;)

> Your forgotten word makes this comment seem like it’s from the early 1800s ;)

Har har. There is such a thing as context clues. I didn't forget, just being somewhat lazy and assuming people could connect the dots.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#164

Post by janalsncm »

selcuka wrote: post #127
janalsncm wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has 25k miles of bullet trains and China accounted for a third of the cars sold in 2022. A third. This is a country that limits imports and even limits the number of drivers in some cities. So it’s silly to suggest public transit can replace cars. ETA: Replace all cars. So as long as we will have cars, we might as well make them safer. > getting self driving cars that are all electric will be a big win. I will…

> China accounted for a third of the cars sold in 2022 Yet they have almost the same number of cars as the US, with 4 times the population.

This misses the point. It doesn’t matter that the average Chinese has fewer cars. They still need cars, which means public transportation can’t eliminate the problem.

I’m a fan of bullet trains myself. I think it’s way smoother than flying and I wish the US could build some high speed rail. But the reality is, even in places with great public transit like Singapore, people still use cars.

What matters is that cars kill people and automated safety systems (up to and including self-driving) can make them safer.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#165

Post by djrobstep »

mrshadowgoose wrote: post #158
djrobstep wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with sharing space with other people? Do you have some kind of phobia? You don't need to lug groceries around - just get them delivered.

> What's wrong with sharing space with other people? Do you have some kind of phobia? Not OP, but I enjoy and value having personal space when I travel. Being able to reliably sit down is also nice. It's amusing to see that your immediate reaction to someone else having different values is to accuse them of having a mental illness, and then trying to force your personal preferences onto them.

Nobody likes crowded or dirty space, but an aversion per se to having other people around is definitely pathological.

I think this is a social trust thing - lots of people are just scared of strangers. This is particularly true for high-violence/high-tension societies like the US.

My city (in Australia) is very peaceful and I don't feel bothered or frightened at all by the general public - in fact I like being able to people-watch, feel a certain sense of vibrancy, etc.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#166

Post by janalsncm »

dangus wrote: post #99
janalsncm wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has 25k miles of bullet trains and China accounted for a third of the cars sold in 2022. A third. This is a country that limits imports and even limits the number of drivers in some cities. So it’s silly to suggest public transit can replace cars. ETA: Replace all cars. So as long as we will have cars, we might as well make them safer. > getting self driving cars that are all electric will be a big win. I will…

> So it’s silly to suggest public transit can replace cars Ew. This is so flawed. What is china’s car ownership per capita? Trips taken per day? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_... China has 2 cars for every 10 people (#99 in the world), while the United States has 9 cars for every 10 people. While China buys a lot of cars (duh, they have a population of over a billion), they would buy eve…

Sorry I should have been more clear. Of course public transit replaces some cars. By definition this is true. The point is, cars are still around no matter how good your public transit system is, so we might as well try to make them safer.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#167

Post by eldritch_4ier »

melling wrote: post #64
polalavik wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of all the tech problems to solve, driverless cars or driverless taxis has always baffled me. It’s a very complex thing to solve with a zillion edge cases. And for what net gain? What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve? Lack of good public transit? Let’s solve that instead. Millions of cars driverless or not are not a great solution to anything.

“What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve?” 40,000 deaths in the United States every year. Hundreds of thousands of costly accidents We can’t get great transportation even in the New York City area. We have 0 miles of high-speed rail, while China built 25,000 it’s great that you want to start building some mass transit, but it’ll take a century if we start now. Let’s start by having trains take you to the…

Nobody bought a Tesla in the last 5 years because “I want fewer highway fatalities”, they often bought it because they thought the overhyped self driving features would let them chill out on their commute.

People want self driving cars so bad because driving everywhere sucks (and sitting on public transit sucks too). Routine travel is mundane and boring.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#168

Post by mrshadowgoose »

djrobstep wrote: post #165
mrshadowgoose wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's wrong with sharing space with other people? Do you have some kind of phobia? Not OP, but I enjoy and value having personal space when I travel. Being able to reliably sit down is also nice. It's amusing to see that your immediate reaction to someone else having different values is to accuse them of having a mental illness, and then trying to force your personal preferences onto them.

Nobody likes crowded or dirty space, but an aversion per se to having other people around is definitely pathological. I think this is a social trust thing - lots of people are just scared of strangers. This is particularly true for high-violence/high-tension societies like the US. My city (in Australia) is very peaceful and I don't feel bothered or frightened at all by the general public - in fact I like being able t…

"People who like different things than me definitely have pathological issues."

Good luck winning people to your side with that.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#169

Post by forgetfreeman »

melling wrote: post #64
polalavik wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of all the tech problems to solve, driverless cars or driverless taxis has always baffled me. It’s a very complex thing to solve with a zillion edge cases. And for what net gain? What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve? Lack of good public transit? Let’s solve that instead. Millions of cars driverless or not are not a great solution to anything.

“What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve?” 40,000 deaths in the United States every year. Hundreds of thousands of costly accidents We can’t get great transportation even in the New York City area. We have 0 miles of high-speed rail, while China built 25,000 it’s great that you want to start building some mass transit, but it’ll take a century if we start now. Let’s start by having trains take you to the…

You want to take a bite out of road deaths legislate a vehicle/phone interlink that disables everything but basic phone functions on smartphones while in the confines of a vehicle, then legislate center console infotainment displays out of existence. Miss me with the bullshit "AI drivers will usher in a new era of road safety", you can trap an AV with a fucking ring of salt on the road if you're clever about how it's arranged. :P

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#170

Post by vrosas »

piffey wrote: post #132
melling wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve taken the train from New York to Boston. While it does go pretty fast for a couple miles, think the average speed is about 82 mph. My 4 mile commute from Hoboken to midtown took anywhere from 45 minutes to 90, if there was a problem. Try getting to the East Side of Manhattan. See people fighting congestion pricing for driving? If mass transit was good, few would drive into the island

Few people do drive to the island. Over 60% of workers in Manhattan take mass transit to work versus 21% driving. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/planning/download/pdf/planning-le... And mass transit adoption keeps growing for the workforce. Because sitting in a car in traffic sucks that much. So we make self driving cars and all those people pile into personal vehicles? That only exacerbates the problem.

I’m actually shocked the ratio is only 3:1. That’s not “few” people that’s hundreds of thousands fighting for a handful of bridges and tunnels each and every morning and every evening in between.
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