Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#161

Post by thebruce87m » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 6:15 AM UTC

arein2 wrote: post #160

thebruce87m wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want parts that I can verify to be genuine in my next second hand phone.

Apple could simply trigger a warning in the settings menu instead of making the part unusable. Or a similar solution. People are so naive defending these horrible practices, I don't know if it's because of apple cult or masochism.

I’m not naive, I’m aware of some people’s feelings towards it. Unfortunately a lot of people have irrational hate towards Apple which makes having an actual conversation difficult.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#162

Post by trimethylpurine » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 6:27 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #137

trimethylpurine wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They’re the reason that Android devices get stolen in great numbers but iOS devices don’t I think that's unlikely. Phones are disguised by cases. Most tech folks can't even tell them apart when they are sitting side by side on a desk in front of them. Not without the screen coming on, anyway. Let alone in someone's pocket or at a bar. If anything Androids might be stolen more often due to socioeconomic pressure. Can…

> I think that's unlikely. You're right, in a literal sense; people pickpocket a phone before knowing what it is. It's what happens right after the actual theft that makes a difference. These more-organized thieves know that these chop-shop buyers aren't (nearly as) interested in iPhones, often to the point that they aren't worth the cost of the added shipping weight. So when they manage to nab a phone, they do a qui…

>These chop-shop buyers aren't (nearly as) interested in iPhones

When an IMEI is reported stolen carriers blacklist it. Either way you have to swap the IMEI, so I'm not seeing a difference.

Anyway, my estimation is that while some might, most stolen phones don't end up in China anyway. They end up on Craigslist in a city 4 miles away from the crime.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#163

Post by arein2 » Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 7:13 AM UTC

thebruce87m wrote: post #161

arein2 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple could simply trigger a warning in the settings menu instead of making the part unusable. Or a similar solution. People are so naive defending these horrible practices, I don't know if it's because of apple cult or masochism.

I’m not naive, I’m aware of some people’s feelings towards it. Unfortunately a lot of people have irrational hate towards Apple which makes having an actual conversation difficult.

Apple gets the hate because almost everybody has an iphone, and because they are one of the worst offenders (making critical parts unavailable and parts pairing).

Of course there are other companies that have similar approach, but if you want to make a change, I am guessing Apple would be the best company to try to force into more nature and consumer friendly practices.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#164

Post by derefr » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 4:09 PM UTC

trimethylpurine wrote: post #162

derefr wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think that's unlikely. You're right, in a literal sense; people pickpocket a phone before knowing what it is. It's what happens right after the actual theft that makes a difference. These more-organized thieves know that these chop-shop buyers aren't (nearly as) interested in iPhones, often to the point that they aren't worth the cost of the added shipping weight. So when they manage to nab a phone, they do a qui…

>These chop-shop buyers aren't (nearly as) interested in iPhones When an IMEI is reported stolen carriers blacklist it. Either way you have to swap the IMEI, so I'm not seeing a difference. Anyway, my estimation is that while some might, most stolen phones don't end up in China anyway. They end up on Craigslist in a city 4 miles away from the crime.

The interesting thing is that most phones aren't reported as stolen (i.e. the device's lost/stolen mode is never activated through the device's cloud service binding), because most people don't realize that that's a thing they can do.

The difference in ratios between the Android and iOS ecosystems, of phones stolen-and-resold-locally and therefore "recoverable", to phones stolen-and-then-"trafficked" and so unrecoverable, comes down to a deterrent effect from how completely iOS's lost mode stops part reuse. By having the 20%-or-so of phones that are marked as lost/stolen, become effectively entirely dead weight with no reusable parts, the margin for the whole logistics pipeline (steal, ship, take apart) for this type of phone drops negative.

Re: Apple backs national right-to-repair bill, offering parts, manuals, and tools

#165

Post by trimethylpurine » Wed, Nov 08, 2023, 7:24 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #164

trimethylpurine wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These chop-shop buyers aren't (nearly as) interested in iPhones When an IMEI is reported stolen carriers blacklist it. Either way you have to swap the IMEI, so I'm not seeing a difference. Anyway, my estimation is that while some might, most stolen phones don't end up in China anyway. They end up on Craigslist in a city 4 miles away from the crime.

The interesting thing is that most phones aren't reported as stolen (i.e. the device's lost/stolen mode is never activated through the device's cloud service binding), because most people don't realize that that's a thing they can do. The difference in ratios between the Android and iOS ecosystems, of phones stolen-and-resold-locally and therefore "recoverable", to phones stolen-and-then-"trafficked" and so unrecover…

Interesting. Are you citing actual statistics here or is this a theory that seems plausible to you? If it's the latter, I should point out that it's relying heavily on an assumption about how often specific models of phones are actually stolen, reported stolen, and/or recovered and I think those numbers are extremely difficult to come by in any realistically useful sense. That said, even with statistics on hand, this is a reach. You might be right, but it's highly unlikely and impossible to prove in any useful application.